An argument can be made that all actions people take are for their own self-interest. Even things like helping the community is done for reciprocal benefits for yourself plus the general increase in respect.
Another point is that if all people just act for their own self-interest, they will have a better life themselves, and if everyone does the same, some sort of proper balance will be achieved.
I have been having some occasional discussions with my friends over this. I personally disagree, but would love to hear what others have to say. Feel free to discuss!
Define self interest.
It is in your best interest to invest heavily in childhood education and recruit young people in to the agricultural sector. That is also in society’s best interest. As it happens the only people doing that are those who can see the problem even with short sighted goggles on.
Most people do not look beyond their short sighted goggles. Most of those goggles come with blinders on the sides.
Human civilization as a whole is maintained by people with blinders and goggles on, and we were trucking along just fine, and will continue to do so until we’re standing in ruins of our own making.
The contextual and memetic aspect of what constitutes a “person’s self interest” far outweights the person’s actual decision and the individual actor cannot be removed cleanly from the wider discussion envelopping what this “self-interest” even is.
The “law” and its detterence logic shapes what “self-interest” is. Talkibg heads shape your understanding of reality and anchor what your self-interest is and means.
Nobody has self-interests in a vacuum.
I wonder if the fact that human civilization has lasted and flourished for so long is just a stroke of luck then…
It has collapsed before. It will collapse again.
I got handed an Ayn Rand sandwich,
Straight from a can, it tasted so bland,
I asked the lass to pass me a glass,
of Engels’ Conditons of the Working Class…I think that as long as people’s individualism does not override the freedoms of others, then the pursuit of self-interest frees the mind to explore all kinds of avenues of spiritual discovery.
That’s a big ask though, and most people have different ideas of what is fair when expressing their individuality, so I do think that there needs to be a mediator of sorts to balance the more extreme aspects of our self-interest, and make sure that no one is fully happy but that we’re all kinda happy, in order for us all to progress, even if it’s at a snail’s pace.
most people have a completely flawed understanding of their own self-interest so this question doesn’t make a lot of sense imo
Do as you will as long as you harm none.
and if everyone does the same, some sort of proper balance will be achieved.
What makes you think that logically follows? Why would it not create competing self-interests that can’t coexist?
Even if you broaden it to acting for indirect reciprocal benefit plenty of people act in ways that don’t have a reciprocal benefit. Just look at the Madleen flotilla, everyone there is putting themselves at personal risk for no personal tangible benefit - the position of self interest would be to stay safely away from the war at home. Look at all the local charities that help vulnerable members of their communities for no personal benefit. Look at people acting against their self interest just within their own families, like supporting elderly parents despite the costs and even though their death would speed their inheritance. There is a huge range of actions that fall outside of both direct and indirect self interest that people take every day.
I think that you might be ignoring “spiritual” self interest. It deeply upsets and enrages me (and every other reasonable person) to see people brutalized like in Gaza. My mental health would literally be better if such atrocities weren’t happening.
It deeply upsets and enrages me
But why? It doesn’t affect you. It isn’t in your self interest to be upset by those things, it just makes you feel bad. Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to say that you are simply able to feel and act selflessly rather than invent a form of self interest that involves caring about other people?
I think i get what you’re saying but isn’t empathy a basic human emotion. Obviously stronger in some people then others but it’s not something that can be just switched off. I suppose i could willfully ignor what’s going on. Which in someways i guess i am doing…
Absolutely it is, and it even seems to be hard coded in many non communal species, like the wombats that open their burrows to other animals during Australian wildfires, but empathy isn’t powered by the idea of reciprocation. It’s an inherently selfless feeling that doesn’t consider either direct or indirect benefits for the self, and it doesn’t make sense to say that acting on those selfless feelings, against your self interest, is itself selfish.
The idea that Woke changed the world to be kinder is ridiculous funny. Most people seem to want immediate self gratification and to make money by posting on social media virtue signalling.
I think we have to go back to real poverty to be altruistic eg. the world wars, 1930s recession. A person with literally nothing will give you half of their life savings, even if that’s the change that they have in their pockets, to help you make a phone call.
In a sort of way, yes. Everyone makes the decisions they feel a bit better with, even the selfless ones.
The way you describe, I don’t think so. Maybe if you include “for a good feeling”.
It is in your self interest to be a part of prosperous society and treated with kindness and respect. Which means the collective interest overlaps with self interest quite a bit.
