Or socialists supporting a fundamentalist theocracy in the Middle East for blockading a genocidal Western client state. Oh shit that one is actually a good comparison. Quick, come up with some more shitty ones.
Except Russia didnt invade Ukraine for good reasons. You know like the humanitarian ones that u listed. its almost like Putin and the one before him doesnt give a single flying fuck about socialism. Nor Russia as it is now.
complete ignorance of the US-orchestrated coup. complete ignorance of the ethnic cleansing and civil war initiated by the regime they installed. complete ignorance of Operation Aerodynamic. complete ignorance of Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt’s leaked phone call. complete ignorance of the 16,000 civilians dead from Kiev regime shelling over eight years. complete ignorance of Zelensky saying Ukraine would attempt to get nukes the week before the SMO.
Complete ignorance of how USSR ended and who played key role of doing it. Complete ignorance of how Putin has all wealth and power of Russia and how he rules Russia. Complete ignorance of how he funds Religion, ultra-nationalists to solidify his rule.
Did you notice you guys still didnt adress my original point? Which is current Russia isnt socialist neither are Putin nor Yeltsin. They are power-hungry and nationalistic leaders. So it is not logical to support them.
Wrong, but if you think this is the case, then to be consistent (still wrong) you have to apply the same label to most places but especially to the US. However, you mentioned the US in your comment but did not call it “fascist”.
U.S actions in Latin America or Middle East
These are not comparable to Russian actions in Ukraine. The US and Russia fundamentally occupy different positions in the global order and the things they do serve different interests and are often motivated by different things. There is (unfortunately) no anti-US equivalent of NATO expanding into Mexico, for example.
The biggest problem with your comment is the idea that saying that the US and EU should stop shoveling Ukrainians into a futile meat grinder to maybe harm Russian interests is “simping for” Russia.
Tomorrow, a small country in Europe has a socialist revolution.
Who are its friends? Who are its immediate enemies? Where does it get weapons to support this new socialist revolution? Who is going to attack it?
This is mostly rhetorical, every educated socialist understands that the immediate enemy a new socialist state will have will be nato. And every educated socialist understands that they will be getting their weapons and support from the current existing enemies of nato.
When you actually carry out this thought experiment in your head and absorb its ramifications properly in a world where you genuinely truly believe that socialist revolution is possible and are seriously working towards it, a lot more things that people in the hard left do and say will make more sense to you.
A final note. Russia isn’t fascist. It’s a liberal state with conservative social values. Liberal states do bad things too. Liberalism carried out the slave trade, they weren’t fascists and neither is current Russia. It’s shit, it’s not good and we don’t like it. But the reality of the current global strategic landscape is what it is. The collapse of Russia would result in the encirclement of China, and the death of the international partner that is currently keeping almost every socialist and anti-imperialist country in the world well armed and with trading partner options.
You have never actually imagined socialism as a real thing to work towards. You have never played out in your head a series of events that leads to a socialist state and what that state would need to do afterwards. Socialism is just a utopian fantasy in your mind, not a reality to work towards and this is why you are blind to all of the above realities. You don’t consider them because you don’t consider the end of capitalism realistic. When you do, you will wrestle with these issues in your mind and be forced to come to terms with them.
Russia isnt fascist but Putin with his massive power and his supporters are.
No mate. That’s also wrong. Putin is among the moderate side of the Russian liberals. He has kept the fascists marginalised, precisely because if they take over Russia they will fucking destroy it in a revanchist fervour that inevitably backfires. The small ultranationalist wing of United Russia is completely out of their fucking minds and has been calling for nukes and total bombardment of Ukraine. If they were remotely empowered in Russia then Ukraine would look like fucking Gaza right now. I am very fucking scared of what happens when Putin goes because we have no idea what the power struggle will look like and it is very possible that these people become empowered within it, he is a fucking moderate compared to those people, they will cause hell to be unleashed, it will be very very bad.
And if a socialist country emerged they wouldnt support them for ideology unity but for their own geopolitical reasons.
Yes and? Do you think that matters to the newly socialist country and the realities of their survival?
What are you going to do as a socialist in this newly socialist country? Martyr yourself on the sword of principle? Refuse to acknowledge the real geopolitical landscape that exists and the necessary requirement to befriend Russia in order for you to survive?
Socialism is a fantasy in your head. Not a reality that you have ever considered bringing into the world. You NEED to consider the real world implications of what you need to do to survive, to make this dream of socialism into a reality, instead of having it remain the beautifully perfect dream you have in your head.
I think another aspect of all of this is that you’re not really speaking about anyone else the way you speak about Russia. The US is levels of magnitude worse, and yet you call it a liberal democracy. I suspect you’ve never really sat down and asked yourself why this is, but it’s propaganda brainworms that you haven’t properly excised in order to look at the global situation in a more clinical and unemotional way.
they wouldnt support them for ideology unity but for their own geopolitical reasons.
Damn, I guess that means the guns and missiles would cease to function, huh?
Vietnamese communists used captured american weapons, anti-zionists use captured israeli weapons. Your gun doesn’t care about the opinions of the person who made it and shipped it.
Is it simping to accept the fact that Russia has effectively won the war and that’s why the peace terms are favorable to them? If Ukraine wanted better terms, they were on the table three years ago, but instead they decided to trust fucking Boris Johnson of all people. Better yet, they could’ve followed the Minsk accords or better still, never should’ve started going on about wanting to join NATO.
Begging blue maga types to drop the teenage incel speak and talk like fuckin adults about entire countries with their own motives. It gives extreme “i do not yet have a fully formed brain” vibes when you view analyses of geopolitics you don’t like as “these people want to fuck the country of Russia.” Deeply unserious, get real.
Who here is simping for Russia? Russia got stabbed in the back by the international community, which is the same community that imposes Capitalism, that de facto leads to Fascism and I haven’t seen anyone here support Russia for doing so. Any Capitalist nation has to have Fascism, either dormant (pretend democracy) or active (when people no longer consent), do you think Fascism is just when government do bad stuff?
You don’t need to worry about being drafted and sent to death, so please try to educate yourself on history. Why even be a socialist if you’re gonna take everything Establishment tells you as truth?
This has nothing to do with support for Russia. People here have been opposed to this war from the start, and have consistently advocated for doing whatever was necessary to bring the fighting to an end. We pointed out that what’s happening right now was the only possible end to this conflict within the first month of the fighting, as did everyone who wasn’t infected with ideological brainworms. The idea that Ukraine was going to prevail in a prolonged conflict with one of the biggest military powers in the world was absurd, and all the talk about Russian weakness and incompetence was pure propaganda. All the “ghost of Kiev” shit was made up nonsense that needlessly prolonged a conflict that was always going to end like this.
This war was an absolute atrocity because it was transparently a proxy war for the United States and NATO. They were openly feeding Ukrainians into a meat grinder in order to weaken Russia for their own geopolitical ends. They knew it would end this way from the beginning, but they gassed up Ukraine and spent billions of dollars to keep the fighting going because Ukrainians were killing Russians and costing Russia money, both of which are perceived to be in the interest of NATO countries. Ukraine itself was ready to make peace years ago–a peace that would have been very generous to them and cost them very little territory–but again NATO officials gassed them up and pressured them to continue fighting. All the deaths since then are blood on the hands of the US, UK, and their allies.
What is the alternative at this point? I’m genuinely asking what you think it could possibly be. Ukraine is not going to win militarily: that is and always was a fantasy. They don’t have the manpower or resources to retake the territory they’ve lost, even with all the aid the US has sent them. They can fight to the last Ukrainian (as many “slava Ukraini” liberals online seem to want), but that’s not going to get them anywhere but dead. Should the US put boots on the ground to fight? That would at least be less cowardly than asking Ukrainians to die for the US’ realpolitik agenda, but it’s also likely to spark World War III. It’s not a good plan, to put it mildly. There is no alternative. This has to end, and this is the only way. The perception that anything other than a demand to keep throwing Ukrainian bodies at the war front is “support for Russia” is exactly why this has gone on as long as it has and cost as many lives as it has. That’s propaganda, and it’s killing real people.This is all true even setting aside the fact that the narrative that Russia attacked Ukraine unprovoked and out of the blue for no reason is also a piece of propaganda. I’m not saying the war was justified, but I’d urge you to look into the recent history of Russia-Ukraine-NATO relations. This didn’t come out of nowhere, and the idea that the dastardly Russians launched a totally unprovoked sneak attack on innocent Ukraine is pure US state propaganda (and orientalism about Russia). Russia is not the evil empire from a bad fantasy novel: they are a modern state that acts on their own geopolitical interests just like the US. NATO has been baiting this war for years because (again) having Russia fight someone who isn’t them is in their interest.
Again, none of this has anything to do with support for Russia. Russia is a capitalist state just like US, and we oppose it like we oppose the US. It’s about stopping a pointless war that is killing thousands of people for no reason, and which has only persisted as long as it has because the US and NATO have been propping up Ukraine to slightly weaken Russia for them. That’s ghoulish. Anybody who wasn’t wearing ideological blinders could see this end coming years ago, and the war should have stopped then. This end was inevitable unless the US is willing to risk World War III by openly attacking Russia. Let it end and stop feeding Ukrainians into the meat grinder for no reason.
Why are you guys simping for fascist russia? Its like a socialist simping for U.S actions in Latin America or Middle East.
Or socialists supporting a fundamentalist theocracy in the Middle East for blockading a genocidal Western client state. Oh shit that one is actually a good comparison. Quick, come up with some more shitty ones.
Except Russia didnt invade Ukraine for good reasons. You know like the humanitarian ones that u listed. its almost like Putin and the one before him doesnt give a single flying fuck about socialism. Nor Russia as it is now.
Ukrainian Neonazis were ethnically cleansing Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens. Russia joined a civil war on the morally correct side.
It’s like if Egypt invaded Israel. Egypt is also an illiberal capitalist state, but they would still be on the right side of that conflict.
complete ignorance of the US-orchestrated coup. complete ignorance of the ethnic cleansing and civil war initiated by the regime they installed. complete ignorance of Operation Aerodynamic. complete ignorance of Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt’s leaked phone call. complete ignorance of the 16,000 civilians dead from Kiev regime shelling over eight years. complete ignorance of Zelensky saying Ukraine would attempt to get nukes the week before the SMO.
Complete ignorance of how USSR ended and who played key role of doing it. Complete ignorance of how Putin has all wealth and power of Russia and how he rules Russia. Complete ignorance of how he funds Religion, ultra-nationalists to solidify his rule.
Did you notice you guys still didnt adress my original point? Which is current Russia isnt socialist neither are Putin nor Yeltsin. They are power-hungry and nationalistic leaders. So it is not logical to support them.
You heard it here first folks: Britain wasn’t socialist, so it was illogical to support them against the nazis in WW2
lol are you seven years old
Wrong, but if you think this is the case, then to be consistent (still wrong) you have to apply the same label to most places but especially to the US. However, you mentioned the US in your comment but did not call it “fascist”.
These are not comparable to Russian actions in Ukraine. The US and Russia fundamentally occupy different positions in the global order and the things they do serve different interests and are often motivated by different things. There is (unfortunately) no anti-US equivalent of NATO expanding into Mexico, for example.
The biggest problem with your comment is the idea that saying that the US and EU should stop shoveling Ukrainians into a futile meat grinder to maybe harm Russian interests is “simping for” Russia.
Let’s do a thought experiment.
Tomorrow, a small country in Europe has a socialist revolution.
Who are its friends? Who are its immediate enemies? Where does it get weapons to support this new socialist revolution? Who is going to attack it?
This is mostly rhetorical, every educated socialist understands that the immediate enemy a new socialist state will have will be nato. And every educated socialist understands that they will be getting their weapons and support from the current existing enemies of nato.
When you actually carry out this thought experiment in your head and absorb its ramifications properly in a world where you genuinely truly believe that socialist revolution is possible and are seriously working towards it, a lot more things that people in the hard left do and say will make more sense to you.
A final note. Russia isn’t fascist. It’s a liberal state with conservative social values. Liberal states do bad things too. Liberalism carried out the slave trade, they weren’t fascists and neither is current Russia. It’s shit, it’s not good and we don’t like it. But the reality of the current global strategic landscape is what it is. The collapse of Russia would result in the encirclement of China, and the death of the international partner that is currently keeping almost every socialist and anti-imperialist country in the world well armed and with trading partner options.
You have never actually imagined socialism as a real thing to work towards. You have never played out in your head a series of events that leads to a socialist state and what that state would need to do afterwards. Socialism is just a utopian fantasy in your mind, not a reality to work towards and this is why you are blind to all of the above realities. You don’t consider them because you don’t consider the end of capitalism realistic. When you do, you will wrestle with these issues in your mind and be forced to come to terms with them.
Russia isnt fascist but Putin with his massive power and his supporters are.
And if a socialist country emerged they wouldnt support them for ideology unity but for their own geopolitical reasons.
No mate. That’s also wrong. Putin is among the moderate side of the Russian liberals. He has kept the fascists marginalised, precisely because if they take over Russia they will fucking destroy it in a revanchist fervour that inevitably backfires. The small ultranationalist wing of United Russia is completely out of their fucking minds and has been calling for nukes and total bombardment of Ukraine. If they were remotely empowered in Russia then Ukraine would look like fucking Gaza right now. I am very fucking scared of what happens when Putin goes because we have no idea what the power struggle will look like and it is very possible that these people become empowered within it, he is a fucking moderate compared to those people, they will cause hell to be unleashed, it will be very very bad.
Yes and? Do you think that matters to the newly socialist country and the realities of their survival?
What are you going to do as a socialist in this newly socialist country? Martyr yourself on the sword of principle? Refuse to acknowledge the real geopolitical landscape that exists and the necessary requirement to befriend Russia in order for you to survive?
Socialism is a fantasy in your head. Not a reality that you have ever considered bringing into the world. You NEED to consider the real world implications of what you need to do to survive, to make this dream of socialism into a reality, instead of having it remain the beautifully perfect dream you have in your head.
I think another aspect of all of this is that you’re not really speaking about anyone else the way you speak about Russia. The US is levels of magnitude worse, and yet you call it a liberal democracy. I suspect you’ve never really sat down and asked yourself why this is, but it’s propaganda brainworms that you haven’t properly excised in order to look at the global situation in a more clinical and unemotional way.
Damn, I guess that means the guns and missiles would cease to function, huh?
Vietnamese communists used captured american weapons, anti-zionists use captured israeli weapons. Your gun doesn’t care about the opinions of the person who made it and shipped it.
Is it simping to accept the fact that Russia has effectively won the war and that’s why the peace terms are favorable to them? If Ukraine wanted better terms, they were on the table three years ago, but instead they decided to trust fucking Boris Johnson of all people. Better yet, they could’ve followed the Minsk accords or better still, never should’ve started going on about wanting to join NATO.
Asking aspiring NATO members to not do ethnic cleansing is like asking the sun not to rise.
Begging blue maga types to drop the teenage incel speak and talk like fuckin adults about entire countries with their own motives. It gives extreme “i do not yet have a fully formed brain” vibes when you view analyses of geopolitics you don’t like as “these people want to fuck the country of Russia.” Deeply unserious, get real.
Who here is simping for Russia? Russia got stabbed in the back by the international community, which is the same community that imposes Capitalism, that de facto leads to Fascism and I haven’t seen anyone here support Russia for doing so. Any Capitalist nation has to have Fascism, either dormant (pretend democracy) or active (when people no longer consent), do you think Fascism is just when government do bad stuff?
You don’t need to worry about being drafted and sent to death, so please try to educate yourself on history. Why even be a socialist if you’re gonna take everything Establishment tells you as truth?
Ah yes, all those well-known nazi occupied nations in South America and the Middle East
This has nothing to do with support for Russia. People here have been opposed to this war from the start, and have consistently advocated for doing whatever was necessary to bring the fighting to an end. We pointed out that what’s happening right now was the only possible end to this conflict within the first month of the fighting, as did everyone who wasn’t infected with ideological brainworms. The idea that Ukraine was going to prevail in a prolonged conflict with one of the biggest military powers in the world was absurd, and all the talk about Russian weakness and incompetence was pure propaganda. All the “ghost of Kiev” shit was made up nonsense that needlessly prolonged a conflict that was always going to end like this.
This war was an absolute atrocity because it was transparently a proxy war for the United States and NATO. They were openly feeding Ukrainians into a meat grinder in order to weaken Russia for their own geopolitical ends. They knew it would end this way from the beginning, but they gassed up Ukraine and spent billions of dollars to keep the fighting going because Ukrainians were killing Russians and costing Russia money, both of which are perceived to be in the interest of NATO countries. Ukraine itself was ready to make peace years ago–a peace that would have been very generous to them and cost them very little territory–but again NATO officials gassed them up and pressured them to continue fighting. All the deaths since then are blood on the hands of the US, UK, and their allies. What is the alternative at this point? I’m genuinely asking what you think it could possibly be. Ukraine is not going to win militarily: that is and always was a fantasy. They don’t have the manpower or resources to retake the territory they’ve lost, even with all the aid the US has sent them. They can fight to the last Ukrainian (as many “slava Ukraini” liberals online seem to want), but that’s not going to get them anywhere but dead. Should the US put boots on the ground to fight? That would at least be less cowardly than asking Ukrainians to die for the US’ realpolitik agenda, but it’s also likely to spark World War III. It’s not a good plan, to put it mildly. There is no alternative. This has to end, and this is the only way. The perception that anything other than a demand to keep throwing Ukrainian bodies at the war front is “support for Russia” is exactly why this has gone on as long as it has and cost as many lives as it has. That’s propaganda, and it’s killing real people.This is all true even setting aside the fact that the narrative that Russia attacked Ukraine unprovoked and out of the blue for no reason is also a piece of propaganda. I’m not saying the war was justified, but I’d urge you to look into the recent history of Russia-Ukraine-NATO relations. This didn’t come out of nowhere, and the idea that the dastardly Russians launched a totally unprovoked sneak attack on innocent Ukraine is pure US state propaganda (and orientalism about Russia). Russia is not the evil empire from a bad fantasy novel: they are a modern state that acts on their own geopolitical interests just like the US. NATO has been baiting this war for years because (again) having Russia fight someone who isn’t them is in their interest.
Again, none of this has anything to do with support for Russia. Russia is a capitalist state just like US, and we oppose it like we oppose the US. It’s about stopping a pointless war that is killing thousands of people for no reason, and which has only persisted as long as it has because the US and NATO have been propping up Ukraine to slightly weaken Russia for them. That’s ghoulish. Anybody who wasn’t wearing ideological blinders could see this end coming years ago, and the war should have stopped then. This end was inevitable unless the US is willing to risk World War III by openly attacking Russia. Let it end and stop feeding Ukrainians into the meat grinder for no reason.