I’m so numb to people calling Stalin a fascist that someone calling him a social democrat is rewriting my brain chemistry. That’s definitely a new one.
Standard online Italian Leftcom insult. Stalin is a succdem because he didn’t establish a moneyless society of worker’s councils in 18 months. Most irl leftcoms I know are more critical support types though.
Only the online ones (mostly reddit) are hitlerites
Only the online ones (mostly reddit) are hitlerites
DO NOT look up if Bordiga had any quotes about Hitler and Mussolini.
Facetious as far as I know, but still lol. Like, he couldn’t think of ANY OTHER “genuine revolutionaries”.
I saw someone (probably on here) call Marxism Leninism “militant anti-imperialist social democracy” in a positive way. I think if you are strict about socialism meaning abolition of the value-commodity form, i.e. what Leninists call the higher stage of socialism, it’s not a very strange thing to say. Just have to remove the value judgement from it.
ML is an ideology/theoretical framework that is not itself relations of production and is aimed at producing a socialist relations of production, so I think it’s still a bit silly.
so I think it’s still a bit silly
Good summary of many leftcom positions, I think. As far as I can tell, it’s mostly this kind of rigid “this is my definition of socialism, anyone who does not instantly implement it is not a socialist regardless of the material conditions they are working in” stuff.
I would like to meet one of these people in person. I mean, I’m sure they’d be horrified at me since I’m very opposed to dogmatism, am not a Marxist, and simply believe that working and oppressed people must seek to elevate themselves via attaining political power. If there is some version of Marx out there that is more concerned with forming a utopia where no form of exploitation takes place, they can keep him! I’ll stick with reading the notes of the revolutionaries that have actually done something.
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True I think the fact I can just tell them “look, I’m not a Marxist, I’m a Catholic that dabbles in Marxist texts and I’m not interested in upholding any kind of ideological purity” instead of telling them that actually I read Marx right and they read him wrong would make them less angry.
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i mean, the bolsheviks were the revolutionary wing of the social democratic party, so sort of true
Wait till you hear this one: Bukharin called him a trotskyist
Incredibly funny concidering they were friends close enough to bother each other with random late-night drunken calls to each other
Stalin once (indirectly) bothered Trotsky in a drunken night!
I mean given the way he adopted the left opposition positions after marginalising bukharin that’s almost a valid point.
Oh she did also make a trinity comparison between socdems, stalin and fascists
Edit:Although she deleted that one lol
I think there is a grain of truth in considering USSR as a social democracy pushed to its logical conclusion.
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Damn, QAA is a decent show, didn’t know she was so libbed up
Edit: oof I read through some of the replies and her epic clapbacks. Very embarrassing for her.
QAA has lib Russiagate brainworms. They believe US intel agencies over Ray McGovern’s “VIPS” whistleblower organization. Their only guiding ideology is “Republicans are bonkers”—which TBF makes them correct 95% of the time, but automatically taking the opposite side to a broken clock isn’t shrewd analysis.
Edit: Liv is cute though
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I don’t think she’s as much of a lib as this take immediately seems when taken at face value, it’s a “if you say that x is bad, by your logic y must also be bad, but you think y is good.” where she isn’t explicitly saying what her opinion of x or y are (but is phrased as if she is).
I think she’s still wrong, but what she’s actually saying is the rebuttal to what Calla said that I would expect most people here would give (“if you can’t ever negotiate with fascists I guess the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact was a mistake!”).
Yeah I also think she’s wrong to make that comparison, although I guess I understand what she’s saying once you accept she’s somehow calling Stalin a social democrat. The situation is a bit different between one DSA mayor versus the organized USSR on the brink of war.
It’s kind of a moot point anyway. Because although Mamdani does enjoy a degree of political clout and has a genuine amount of bargaining power, he’s still just one mayor. He’s not really in a position to declare the independent socialist republic of NYC, nor do I think he’d want to. He’s a cog in the machine now. Of course he’s going to play ball with the fucking president, even if he does personally think Trump is a fascist. He’s the mayor-elect of NYC, not some hardened revolutionary general or whatever some people think he is
My dream is to drop three atom bombs on New York City.
- Raul Castro, probably fake.
I wish no harm to american ruling class, my enemy is the american people
- A Serbian communist on Twitter, said jokingly.
Wow I thought she was trolling but she seems to be sincere. That is certainly a take.
I don’t understand how people start questioning things like capitalism and liberal democracy, but still believe obvious American state propaganda.
I don’t understand how people start questioning things like capitalism and liberal democracy, but still believe obvious American state propaganda.
This is not the case here. She has apparently been a leftcom for years, she thinks she’s more left than Stalin (actual quote from the linked thread) because he did not abolish commodity production and she, comfortably nestled in her armchair, supports immediately abolishing commodity production (in the vacuum of the imaginary world that exists in her mind, where things are not actually implemented and subject to interaction with reality).
All our enemies have one thing in common, the magical thinking endemic to idealism.
Oh wow. Yeah why didn’t Stalin wave his magic want to create full communism on day one? Obviously he was a Nazi.
If she thinks she could do better I invite her to build a revolutionary vanguard party and fund it by robbing banks.
https://xcancel.com/Liv_Agar/status/1992353891518922806
Wow, Liv Agar bravely coming out against basic understanding of history.
“I am obviously to the left of anyone who thinks there is commodity production under socialism” (Referring to Josef Stalin.)
You are a streamer.
Leftcoms should be banished to the polar regions and restricted from internet access for the remainder of their lives. They can keep the fancy chairs, though.
Leftcoms don’t understand why no one can stand them and they’re constantly mocked, but then they’ll say things like “I’m obviously to the left of every revolutionary ever except Pol Pot
”. (This is a joke, but somewhere in the back of my mind I think I remember some leftcom online doing unironic “Pol Pot abolished the commodity form” posting. Edit: this was probably an ironic meme.)Please consider that if your definition of “more left” is that you sit in an armchair being the specialest correctest person with absolutely no connection between your ideas and actual reality, it might be a fucking useless definition.
Prior to this post I had no idea who Liv Agar was. After this post, Liv Agar’s name will immediately make me feel vaguely disdainful every time I see it. THIS is the true power of LEFT COMMUNISM.
I don’t understand. Can somebody tell me when the capitalists appointed Stalin so as to strengthen capitalism and militantly protect it from its own contradictions? I don’t really specialize in Soviet history, so maybe I missed that part.
Also, when did we love the Kingdom of Sweden?
ETA: It looks like Liv was calling Joseph Stalin a social democrat, but their post is so poorly written that it looked like the more generic accusation of calling him a fascist. In which case, I still have to ask how Stalin qualified as a social democrat.
She explains in the thread that she’s calling Stalin a social democrat on the basis that there was still commodity production in the USSR.
Fun new game: leftcom or democrat?
that one is easy its leftcom, a dem would never call stalin a socdem
The Center Is Reading Theory And It’s Making The Left Nervous
DSA people will start calling us Dogmatists in 1 year
I NEED an old white lady (who is actually a millennial, 40 years from now) from the DSA to tell me “no investigation, no right to speak”
DSA nerds are calling us Ultras already so just give it time
in 1 year
I have bad news for you about DSA members and their knowledge of the word “dogmatist” (I’m pretty sure they’ve already been doing this for a long time).
DSA people will start calling us
DogmatistsCapitalist Roaders in 1 year
Rank-and-file has been at that level for years now.
Armchair so comfy it’s got me voting for Hillary in 2028
Lenin would have voted for Kamala Harris.
Bordiga 4 Buttigieg
Bootygig is entirely too left wing for bordiga.
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Always has been
"left"twitter has been fucking exhausting ever since the UN vote
I do not believe you (that “left” twitter was not exhausting before the UN vote, that is).
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My resolve is weak. This is me officially asking you for more details.
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People will really just pin all their hopes on China and then crash out the moment China looks out for its own interests and doesn’t take on the entire rest of the world on principle.
Like, it would be nice if they had vetoed. Would that have made a difference in Palestine? Almost definitely not in the long term. Would that have hurt China? Probably yes. Would they be more likely to be better on foreign policy if there was an international communist movement? Definitely yes. China isn’t going to save you. China is trying to save China, because they’re extremely afraid of ending up like the USSR did.
Every Arab country was pushing this deal. Fatah was pushing this deal. It was always going to go through. Did anyone expect China - notorious for “minding their own business” to an extreme degree, even when it’s morally wrong - to go against every single Arab country and the internationally recognized Palestinian government who even Hamas still treat as somewhat legitimate to avoid fracturing the Palestinian state?
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at one point i saw a thread arguing about the “chinese century” memes…?
- Do people think that these memes unironically mean everything will be fixed because of the “chinese century”?
- Do people genuinely now think that it would be worse to live under Chinese hegemony than Amerikkkan hegemony, even if those were the two options? How is “won’t save you” even close to as bad as “will actively murder you and then laugh and murder your children for 10 generations”?
I am still waiting for the mythical “Chinese imperialism” to manifest in any kind of interventionism or enforcement action. People really need to have some perspective.
I’m torn. I want to ask you for more details, because I want to know. But I also feel a bone-deep certainty that I will regret doing so.
What do you mean “you people”
liv agar no longer for me page
aaaand now i’m rewatching Kung Pow
I think what Liv is saying is that if Mamdani going to talk with Trump is working with fascists, then so was the MR Pact. I don’t know if she thinks that MR was indeed working with fascists, or what specific group she means by “you people” (principled anti imperialists? “tankies”? people that have actually stuck their neck out?)
Sidenote, I legitimately think Calla Walsh’s reading of the Trump-Mamdani meeting is a much more coherent reading than what a lot of people have been saying, that Trump just “loves a winner” or “always goes with whoever he last spoke with.”
Link?
It’s in da post!
Oooooohhh I thought there was more to it my bad
Why would Juniper say this?
There is only one woman online and she runs all the dang accounts
Breaking! Scientists find out is it possible to live without a brain!
i continue to think that any person, who spends money in great satan on tourism, is not to be trusted strictly on principle of the thing. Doubly so when your job is collecting money from simps
Effectively calling 99.8% of the political space fascists is not the most useful take out there.
