https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/76d7f98d-738f-45b5-b8f6-78689be74ac1.jpeg?format=webp
They’ve gotten very strange in the past year or so. I’ve seen multiple dbzer0 users, including two admins, do complete 180s on tankie bullshit, and it’s rather bizarre.
My best guess is that tankies offer them a sense of community, which is how many terminally online folk get drawn into it. People who have a deep desire for community will overlook moral issues if invited to be a part of that community, and even adopt, consciously or unconsciously, those positions in order to better ‘fit in’ with the community.
In a time when the real world is more recognizably hostile than ever, or at least for as long as most of us here have been alive (insofar as we are both aware of it and noting that it is backsliding rather than improving), online communities probably seem quite tempting to hew closer to.
tankies offer them a sense of community
You know what’s an even bigger community? The hegemonic ideology of liberal imperialism. It’s literally the biggest community in the (Western) world.
The size of that community is counter-intuitive. Liberalism, as the ideology of a system that atomises society, validates any attempt at fracturing communities. This is one reason why they’re in love with quintillions of ideological labels to describe people’s inclinations just right. The result is that person A feeling B’s 3% titanium tax goes too far and B feeling A’s 3% titanium tax doesn’t go far enough won’t feel in a community together.
I was just thinking the same thing. Wouldn’t you get a bigger sense of community just taking up the liberal point of view that takes up, I don’t know, the entire mainstream media and rest of the freaking internet, including most of Lemmy, has?
No, it’s just some people like to read up on real facts and can’t delude themselves when they compare those facts with what their eyes and ears show them is happening in Gaza.
It’s not like this is an easy community to be a part of either. There’s a lot of history and “advanced struggle sessions” that an average Internet user is not going to be able to partake in at all without months of lurking the site and consuming off-site materials (theory etc)
The FBI complaining that infiltrating communists is hard because they make you read
Looks down at the unopened copy of “Superimperialism”
“I’m not getting paid enough for this”
Don’t be silly, the dominant world-view that surrounds them is obviously non-ideological
It’s bigger and more widespread, but I think maybe that comment contains an admission: hegemonic liberalism sure doesn’t feel like a community
It’s also a textbook case of them trying to psychologize issues that have no business being psychologized.
Liberals and “everyone who exists outside of the worldview i was taught as a child does so because they’re fucked up and crazy in the brain”: a centuries-long ideological romance
Doesn’t really have a sense of “community” though, it’s more about everyone constantly trying to get one up on everyone else and fuck everyone else over to get ahead.
A community of 500 million is hardly a community at all
using the word tankie at all is such an online thing i get second hand embarrassment
I was warned at a DSA event 8 years ago to “watch out for tankies.” Communist Caucus member
Lmao what dot hey think they’re going to do? Say something that person disagrees with?
Watch out!?!? I guess
Hilarious that you don’t have to “watch out” for liberal bs though
I’ve been called tankie by a Trot and in that particular context, okay, fair.
I have literally never heard it used in real life. Seems like a terminally online younger Gen Z thing.
Local anarchists have thrown it at various comrades in my
branchAs an anarchist I apologise for those people
My city has an especially obnoxious and liberal anarchist scene, but I know it’s not representative of all anarchists. No need for you to apologize on their behalf
Tankies are mentioned a lot in my trotskyist party a fair amount. Its usually “we did x action and this tankie said this thing”
you can’t deny the Uighur genocide, it would have to exist for it to be something a person can deny
Yeah, I don’t get the point of this post
Basically libs have a deep desire to love capital and therefore can never admit china might be something’s alright or better than the west. So they need to couch their lament in “well china has its own genocide too!” China cannot be allowed to be the good guy, because we the west must be the good guys or else everything they’ve learned would be wrong and the cognitive dissonance would shatter their feeble little minds.
It looks like OP quoted something a liberal bozo said in the title, but didn’t indicate it was a quote. I was confused at first too.
Ya they probably should have added some context to this post instead of just link and a quote.
Yeah you’re likely correct
I don’t actually see a problem with this statement. I myself have said that describing it as a pretty heavy handed crackdown is fair in the past as opposed to a “genocide”. They most certainly did carry out excesses too.
What matters is whether you recognise that’s better than the western approach to extremism spreading within muslim communities - killing or indefinitely detaining them. China’s model for handling this extremism was clearly better.
Not even. They only put people in those deradicalization centers who were caught consuming extremist materials. It’s not like they discriminated against all Uyghurs. They did the opposite really, they censored the media so the rest of the population wouldn’t harrass them for all the terrorist acts commited by people of Uyghur descent. Xinhua (now New China TV on youtube) has interviews of people who graduated from these internment centers.
And for anyone that hasn’t seen it, here’s a former colonel admitting to the CIA funding terrorism in China https://youtu.be/91wz5syVNZs?t=1342
People can still think that action you described is a “heavy handed crackdown”, at that point it’s an opinion up for discussion/debate. I certainly hope the topic was debated thoroughly internally to the CCP instead of making a rash decision.
i wonder if it’s like Y2K prep or a pandemic and you’re supposed to look like you over-reacted because you actually prevented what you were trying to prevent.
not to excuse any specific things, just the character of the criticism especially with the baseline lib take on china.
I’d say the ethnic cleansing of Tatars from Crimea following WW2 was an overreaction, but that too could be argued to be commensurate if we are just going by if it prevented what it was intended to prevent.
Iirc one of Tatar tribes in USSR send literally every able man to serve nazis during invasion, and there were Tatar divisions in SS being organised so it definitely weren’t baseless suspicions.
And the Tatars that fought for the Red Army were also ethnically cleansed. This was a collective punishment against every single Crimean Tatar.
Would Israel be justified in ethnically cleansing Palestinians based on that Amin al-Husseini allied with the Nazis and said they had a common enemy in Jews and Communists?
I see you don’t see the difference between “the suspicions weren’t baseless” and “kill them all”.
but that too could be argued to be commensurate if we are just going by if it prevented what it was intended to prevent.
In this case we could easily see what was prevented, nazi satellite states genociding Jews and Slavs until they weren’t needed too, as i somehow cannot imagine victorious nazis counting Tatars as “Aryans”. We are fortunate that it didn’t come to fruition because nazis were pushed quickly out, but again this is the benefit of the hindsight, if you call in the Palestice comparison, i bet it would be different tale even here if someone invaded Israel at 8th October. I bet zionists would not be kissed on hands and given pats on the head.
Especially considering the history of Tatars capturing and enslaving Russians
i think it’s fairly obvious that we are not “just” that criterion
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Is this a change of tune for the dbzer0 admins, or has this always been their stance? It’s remarkably fair considering the source, even if it isn’t correct.
Big change of tune
That’s what I thought, makes sense though. The mods have been friendly with me as of late.
From what I can tell, you’ve been putting in the work out on the federated side
Thanks! That’s actually why it’s kinda surprising to see the dbzer0 mod team soften their views on Marxists, I try to leave dbzer0 alone but have gotten into arguments with the admins before.
Speaking from experience, nothing makes a budding leftist seriously investigate the facts of Marxism like being cast out and designated a communist enemy by others. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think we’ll see an accelerated realignment now that db0 is officially part of the…uh, tankie quad bike. Like it or not, they’re with us now.
I’m still of the mind that dbzer0 has a while to go before being fully outcast by the libs and fash, but I do think it will accelerate the alignment, you’re right. My “multipolar Lemmy” theory I made a year or two ago may finally come true.
Just need a few more instances and we can finally get those tank treads and really start tankieing all over the place!
I notice liberals offer a lot of upfront resistance to heterodox viewpoints, but they like being smug and correct so they’ll take the opportunity to stew on it and come around (at least in part), but it takes like actual weeks. I also know this because it’s how I sometimes interact with my own liberal tendencies.
Makes sense! I do get people thanking me over dms from time to time.
It’s not an opinion I personally hold, but it’s an opinion which is within the range of acceptable good faith discourse
I think some of them are coming from the idealist position of “there should’ve just been nothing bad happening at all, so a crackdown on extremism is still bad.” just wanting a perfect solution that inconveniences no-one.
Goddamn, we got .world, .db0, MeanwhileOnGrad, and tankijerk all at once? That’s some quality slop right there.
The slop trough really has been running over
I always said it was only a matter of time before the social fascists that call MWoG their home would turn on even dbzer0. It’s the classic Nazi bar, they outright fabricate info, erase context, welcome Zionists and other fascists, it was only a matter of time before they got even greedier and started attacking anarchists for being “tankies.”
It’s not a coincidence that they call us “roaches” or “d-s,” it’s because it’s a cryptofash meeting spot.
What’s MWoG?
Meanwhile on Grad. It’s a Nazi bar version of Slop.
Ah, thanks.
My mind kept wanting to read it as MGTOW (the online anti-feminist community).
Edit: Shouldn’t it be MoG, because meanwhile is one word?
Lmao, I can see that! Lotta overlap, I’ll bet.
Oh lemmydotworld, never change. Your liberalism is a hell of a show.
Dotworld, if you hate the idea of online communities so much, you’re free to stop existing at any time. You’re the biggest Lemmy instance after all, I’m sure it would show quite the example.
I will always resent .world showing up out of the blue and acting like the America of the fediverse
if the cowards hadn’t defederated from us, preemptively as a last resort, the posting would have been glorious.
The news media said it’s real. Left-liberals believe the news.
It’s as simple as that.
Nothing you say or share — no matter how compelling — can change their minds (unless their faith in imperialist media is shaken).
Most liberals have never had their beliefs tested - really tested - because the entire dominant power structure is built to insulate them from meaningful critique. It’s why their denunciations of communism are either incredibly ignorant of basic facts or outright word salad.
The libs still reject western news sources mentioning Nazis in Ukraine or anything that goes against what they have been told all this time by
Alternate sources are tankie propaganda but they still reject the sources they think is trustworthy and resort to calling you names.
the uyghur genocide is something that exasperates me.
send me some fucking proof. i can’t believe we got an almost orwellian dystopia in gaza and even that’s producing irrefutable proof. satellite images of entire neighbourhoods leveled.
somehow with uyghurs libs are always shifty when it comes to proof. endless huge text and msm articles about how bad it is, but never a single credible picture.
I popped in to read that thread and it’s wall to wall people being called tankies for the most minor pushback. Something like “sure, fuck tankies, but surely we can all agree that what’s happening in Palestine is clearly worse though” will be heavily downvoted with an essay reply from pugjesus. This is fantastic, I hope this keeps happening until there’s nobody left in the in-group. If even a tenth of those people end up more amenable to socialist thought after the experience of being tossed outside the wire, the obsessive liberals will have done us a huge service. Like in every piece of dystopian fiction where people are banished from The City on suspicion of being sympathetic to Wasteland Rebel Group, only to end up a lot more sympathetic after being thrown into the wasteland themselves. Reminds me of that cliche about how we create our enemies, then they arrive.
I hope the most anticommunist power users never shut the fuck up about tankies, I hope they tell more ridiculous stories based on more and more tenuous connections that invite obvious critique, and i hope they get more paranoid and vindictive in response to that critique. I hope they fully depart reality and alienate every well-meaning liberal who has the temerity to question their urban legends about the scary cryptids who believe in human flourishing. I hope every one of them turns into Jack D. Ripper and triples down on tankie cockroaches rehtoric. I wish them all a very merry Detroit: Become Hitler and I’ll be there with open arms and a big smile to greet the nice people they drive off.
!libjerk@anarchist.nexus has now been renamed ‘MeanwhileonFash’
If only they’d do something fun like that
I’ve seen multiple dbzer0 users, including two admins, do complete 180s on tankie bullshit
People can learn when they listen.
Edit: I just read the screenshot. They didn’t even do a 180. They said China was being “authoritarian” to the Uyghurs. All they said was that Israel is doing worse.
this is what happens when the “we can be mad about two things (but only ever complain about one of those things)” crowd is forced to engage with the other thing i guess
They said China was being “authoritarian” to the Uyghurs
if i was trying to be maximally charitable to the meaningless buzzword, the UN report is pretty bad… until you remember the superior western alternative these worlders prefer, is mass murder of civilians in unrelated countries. and that’s without getting into any
police state shit.It’s not the worst usage of the word “authoritarian”, for sure. I’ve just grown to hate the word in any context, because it’s practically meaningless (as you described). It simply means “wielding power”—it doesn’t distinguish between power used to oppress and that used to liberate. Liberals also apply the word inconsistently because they’re blind to most oppressive structures of capitalism, and thus fail to label them “authoritarian”.
I prefer Awoo’s term, “heavy handedness”, because that better describes a benevolent strategy which was taken too far.
What are the chances that any of those people have ever talked to an actual Uyghur living in Xinjiang and gotten their thoughts and perspectives on the matter? I mean, I know liberals would rather tokenize them for their own ghoulish agendas than to actually listen to a minority and treat them as equal individuals, but still.
Need to spread that famous uyghur dude in douyin that goes into omegle to make westerners look dumb
Nah, that guy’s clearly a CCP agent brainwashed into spreading ebil COMMIE PROPAGANDA thank god Adrian Zenz and Radio Free Asia are both trustworthy sources /s
Was thinking the same thing.
Adrian Zenz has struck again
Now they’re just admitting “tankie” doesn’t mean anything.
oi mate i’m a 90 year old brit who still has strong opinions about the suppression of the hungarian colour revolution
lol
