Using bideogame to describe reality really resonates with people, relating videogame mechanics to the mechanics of life really helps a lot of people visually understand things.
I would go so far as to argue that japanese media where every single god damn isekai has videogame mechanics is a solid example of how so many people want to interpret the world around them in videogame language.
Describing economic precarity as an execution meter at which point you become one-shot within society with no respawns is an easier to understand concept for normies who know all these game mechanics but do not understand political or economic phrases.
I know a lot of you hate this shit but getting through to the people that have a below average education or comprehension level requires a below average way of speaking. This sounds condescending but there is no way to talk about the bottom 50% of the population other than with such honesty. If you say precarity to Cuno he’s not going to understand a word being said, but put it in videogame language and he will. This is important, the western left is very good at talking to educated liberals (often the more educated the better) but not very good at reaching below that where media is more successful at manipulating them rightwards than we are at speaking to them.
Using bideogame to describe reality really resonates with people, relating videogame mechanics to the mechanics of life really helps a lot of people visually understand things.
“Your boss stealing surplus value is like your boss ksing after you did almost all of the dps”
“M-C-M’ is like how people use real money to buy bis gear which they then use to farm valuable loot that they cash out with real money at the end of the ladder season”
It’s the age old struggle of conservatism. I have a hard time understanding why this happens and why a lot of conservatives are way more willing to subsume any new development into their movement, while enforcing their own values on it.
Like I wonder, could it be because the immaterial(theory) is the only kind of power that Traditional Marxists have left? If they let go of that, it’d be potentially a huge blow to their selves. Are they scared the plebs hate them and will eat them alive if they try to open up?
It’s because video game theory begets video game logic. It is further mediating and alienating yourself from reality as opposed to exposing yourself to it. The desire of the isekai isn’t to experience reality with explicable video game mechanics, it is to escape reality into a world of explained video game mechanics. Language is already a mediation, further going to a world of metaphor is adding another layer of obfuscation.
I’ve never been opposed to it as an entry point, but it inevitably spirals into tier lists and meta talk, which are not compatible with Marxist thinking. If we are to make metaphors here, reality for Marxism is more like a 90’s point and click adventure game than any modern game. There is alot more backtracking and absurdist puzzle solving than most people enjoy. Once the logic is uncovered, it makes sense, but usually only in hindsight, and sometimes not at all.
The only thing I do advocate for using videogames for is that the entire thing is a developed experience created by humans. No video game is naturally occuring, just like human society.
If you’re not opposed to it as entry point, what’s the issue?
My proposal is simply to make socialism more appealing to broader set of people, so that when shit goes down, when material conditions force them into action, they’ll choose to ally with us and not the fascists. We’re not going to get them to ally with us by taking away their treats.
Even if we had the military might to force people to bend to our will, we certainly do not, that’s not going to turn them into comrades. They have to make the choice themselves. I believe most people would like to, but they’re scared and abused by capitalism. I don’t believe that throwing big words at them and telling them that video games are evil is gonna get them on our side. We have to educate them to make that choice any ways that they understand and get them to move further down the pipeline.
We are extremely alienated, from each other as well. We don’t need to divide ourselves any further, if my methods prove to be ineffective, then life will teach me and I will adapt. No words are needed to teach me that lesson and no words can teach me that lesson. They’re just tools to plant the seed in my mind, that life will kick into action.
It’s not about taking treats away, it’s about how you understand reality. If you go with video games as your entry point, you will inevitably have to contend with ‘git gud’ culture, which is logically and structurally reinforcing. This is because games are a super-structural entity that reflects the dominant culture. Our goal, as Marxists, is to understand, and help others understand, the base that creates this super-structure, not to explain the base using the metaphor of the super-structure, because that makes the super-structure seem natural, permanent, and inevitable, when it is anything but.
As such it works ONLY as an entry point, but then must be immediately discarded because it is a metaphorical construction.
We work best when we lay out these fundamental truths in easily explicable ways that accurately describe reality, and are believed not because we use good metaphors, but because we can accurately describe and explain a person’s lived experience, and give a reasonable method forward. Our struggle at the moment is presenting the reasonable way forward, not accurately describing reality.
For example, you can say ‘Use a better meta, join the union.’ but that does not combat ‘Fuck you, I don’t need to play the meta, I’m just built different.’ which is an incredibly common attitude among gamers because most gamers are complete shit at games.
If you instead go, ‘Join a union, at least then you can know the face of the person that is fucking you.’ that usually gets a better response because usually people know they are getting fucked, and think that they will also be fucked by the union, but if you present it as a misanthropic but clarifying action, they will be in favor of it. This doesn’t work when people don’t think they’re getting fucked, but those people are a minority. It also is an entry point that fundementally misunderstands Marxism, but it at least sidesteps the issue of the super-structure.
Ultimately though it about who your audience is, I agree. If you are successful with it and manage to translate it into real understanding, I applaud you.
Trying to simplify “Join a union” is absolutely not a good idea. That’s literally Pokemon go to the polls type of stuff.
But the article isn’t about simplifying marx into gamer speak. That was not my intention. Videogames are just as fake as the Economy, it’s not difficult to pivot into real world problems from bideogame problems and arrive at the root cause of them and how to address them, because the root cause is ultimately the same, that’s why gamers are so miserable and why they should stop gaming and join a union, because their life doesn’t have to be filled with misery. That’s it really. Like you said that is the only function they can serve.
But I’m not here to argue I just don’t want to be misinterpreted. I don’t have access to ADHD medication so it can be difficult, probably should quit doing commentary tbh it’s happened to many times already. I’m grateful that people take the time to correct me and making sure I don’t cause harm. I try to stick to just linking theory to people to read although it can make it seem like I’m being dogmatic so it’s complicated. I just hope any of the orgs I reached out to respond, but they haven’t so I just come here to try to be useful, but you tell me maybe I’m just doing more harm than good. I would gladly leave if I’m a net negative.
I don’t think what you are engaging in is a net negative. Any engagement is good, though it would be better to be doing it irl, obviously. I’m the same way, it’s not that what I view you doing as harmful, just not really theoretically correct. My thing is that it is basically one step forward, one step back. Now, maybe that step backwards is necessary to take two steps forward, idk, but I am personally arguing that it isn’t and feels like we are making more work for ourselves in the future.
This is how we should be talking to people tbh.
Using bideogame to describe reality really resonates with people, relating videogame mechanics to the mechanics of life really helps a lot of people visually understand things.
I would go so far as to argue that japanese media where every single god damn isekai has videogame mechanics is a solid example of how so many people want to interpret the world around them in videogame language.
Describing economic precarity as an execution meter at which point you become one-shot within society with no respawns is an easier to understand concept for normies who know all these game mechanics but do not understand political or economic phrases.
I know a lot of you hate this shit but getting through to the people that have a below average education or comprehension level requires a below average way of speaking. This sounds condescending but there is no way to talk about the bottom 50% of the population other than with such honesty. If you say precarity to
Cuno he’s not going to understand a word being said, but put it in videogame language and he will. This is important, the western left is very good at talking to educated liberals (often the more educated the better) but not very good at reaching below that where media is more successful at manipulating them rightwards than we are at speaking to them.
“your boss has lethal on you fam. you gonna get pwnd like a n00b or you gonna take the pro strat and join the union?”
fuck that might actually work
Can’t believe my firm has both Culling Strike and At Will Employment
speak to your audience in the ways they are smart in
I really like this way of putting it, they are smart in videogames.
modern times require modern solutions :)
“Your boss stealing surplus value is like your boss ksing after you did almost all of the dps”
“M-C-M’ is like how people use real money to buy bis gear which they then use to farm valuable loot that they cash out with real money at the end of the ladder season”
“Redistribution of wealth is just a ladder reset”
It’s the age old struggle of conservatism. I have a hard time understanding why this happens and why a lot of conservatives are way more willing to subsume any new development into their movement, while enforcing their own values on it.
Like I wonder, could it be because the immaterial(theory) is the only kind of power that Traditional Marxists have left? If they let go of that, it’d be potentially a huge blow to their selves. Are they scared the plebs hate them and will eat them alive if they try to open up?
It’s because video game theory begets video game logic. It is further mediating and alienating yourself from reality as opposed to exposing yourself to it. The desire of the isekai isn’t to experience reality with explicable video game mechanics, it is to escape reality into a world of explained video game mechanics. Language is already a mediation, further going to a world of metaphor is adding another layer of obfuscation.
I’ve never been opposed to it as an entry point, but it inevitably spirals into tier lists and meta talk, which are not compatible with Marxist thinking. If we are to make metaphors here, reality for Marxism is more like a 90’s point and click adventure game than any modern game. There is alot more backtracking and absurdist puzzle solving than most people enjoy. Once the logic is uncovered, it makes sense, but usually only in hindsight, and sometimes not at all.
The only thing I do advocate for using videogames for is that the entire thing is a developed experience created by humans. No video game is naturally occuring, just like human society.
If you’re not opposed to it as entry point, what’s the issue?
My proposal is simply to make socialism more appealing to broader set of people, so that when shit goes down, when material conditions force them into action, they’ll choose to ally with us and not the fascists. We’re not going to get them to ally with us by taking away their treats.
Even if we had the military might to force people to bend to our will, we certainly do not, that’s not going to turn them into comrades. They have to make the choice themselves. I believe most people would like to, but they’re scared and abused by capitalism. I don’t believe that throwing big words at them and telling them that video games are evil is gonna get them on our side. We have to educate them to make that choice any ways that they understand and get them to move further down the pipeline.
We are extremely alienated, from each other as well. We don’t need to divide ourselves any further, if my methods prove to be ineffective, then life will teach me and I will adapt. No words are needed to teach me that lesson and no words can teach me that lesson. They’re just tools to plant the seed in my mind, that life will kick into action.
You misunderstand me.
It’s not about taking treats away, it’s about how you understand reality. If you go with video games as your entry point, you will inevitably have to contend with ‘git gud’ culture, which is logically and structurally reinforcing. This is because games are a super-structural entity that reflects the dominant culture. Our goal, as Marxists, is to understand, and help others understand, the base that creates this super-structure, not to explain the base using the metaphor of the super-structure, because that makes the super-structure seem natural, permanent, and inevitable, when it is anything but.
As such it works ONLY as an entry point, but then must be immediately discarded because it is a metaphorical construction.
We work best when we lay out these fundamental truths in easily explicable ways that accurately describe reality, and are believed not because we use good metaphors, but because we can accurately describe and explain a person’s lived experience, and give a reasonable method forward. Our struggle at the moment is presenting the reasonable way forward, not accurately describing reality.
For example, you can say ‘Use a better meta, join the union.’ but that does not combat ‘Fuck you, I don’t need to play the meta, I’m just built different.’ which is an incredibly common attitude among gamers because most gamers are complete shit at games.
If you instead go, ‘Join a union, at least then you can know the face of the person that is fucking you.’ that usually gets a better response because usually people know they are getting fucked, and think that they will also be fucked by the union, but if you present it as a misanthropic but clarifying action, they will be in favor of it. This doesn’t work when people don’t think they’re getting fucked, but those people are a minority. It also is an entry point that fundementally misunderstands Marxism, but it at least sidesteps the issue of the super-structure.
Ultimately though it about who your audience is, I agree. If you are successful with it and manage to translate it into real understanding, I applaud you.
Trying to simplify “Join a union” is absolutely not a good idea. That’s literally Pokemon go to the polls
type of stuff.
But the article isn’t about simplifying marx into gamer speak. That was not my intention. Videogames are just as fake as the Economy, it’s not difficult to pivot into real world problems from bideogame problems and arrive at the root cause of them and how to address them, because the root cause is ultimately the same, that’s why gamers are so miserable and why they should stop gaming and join a union, because their life doesn’t have to be filled with misery. That’s it really. Like you said that is the only function they can serve.
But I’m not here to argue I just don’t want to be misinterpreted. I don’t have access to ADHD medication so it can be difficult, probably should quit doing commentary tbh it’s happened to many times already. I’m grateful that people take the time to correct me and making sure I don’t cause harm. I try to stick to just linking theory to people to read although it can make it seem like I’m being dogmatic so it’s complicated. I just hope any of the orgs I reached out to respond, but they haven’t so I just come here to try to be useful, but you tell me maybe I’m just doing more harm than good. I would gladly leave if I’m a net negative.
I don’t think what you are engaging in is a net negative. Any engagement is good, though it would be better to be doing it irl, obviously. I’m the same way, it’s not that what I view you doing as harmful, just not really theoretically correct. My thing is that it is basically one step forward, one step back. Now, maybe that step backwards is necessary to take two steps forward, idk, but I am personally arguing that it isn’t and feels like we are making more work for ourselves in the future.