• fannin [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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    15 days ago

    I think there are two things here that are true at the same time. One, Israel despite its claims isn’t synonymous with Judaism. And two, most Jews love and support Zionism. It’s kind of like whiteness and white people I think.

      • fannin [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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        15 days ago

        I think it’s just a brute fact that most Jewish people are Zionists and you can fact check me on the global polling if you want. FWIW I’m including squishy libbed up two state solution Zionism as Zionism, because it is Zionism.

        • Red_October [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          15 days ago

          Cool it with the “brute facts” man. “Global Polling” is funded by think-tanks. Who do you think those are funded by? The bourgeoisie. The Elites of Israel, the U.S. and every colonized land are the same. Meanwhile the proletariat are the only ones who pay the price of scapegoating religious and ethnic groups. I understand your reservations about Israel being included in a two-state solution, but you sound like a “squishy” fed.

          • fannin [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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            15 days ago

            This is the same argument people use to say Chinese people actually hate their government. Generally I’m inclined to believe polling that has transparent and sound methodology even I don’t like the results.

            It’s creepy to me that you think this position warrants fedjacketing.

          • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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            15 days ago

            The Elites of Israel, the U.S. and every colonized land are the same.

            Not when you consider global hegemony, resource extraction and what proletariat benefits from another. Despite your dismissal, the support of Israel amongst most Jewish people is no different to me than the significant amount of Catholics who believe in atrocious policies regarding abortion, childbirth, etc. Of course, the political topics are different; but there is a overwhelming, prevalent culture of believing in “divine” moral paradigms from birth. Like abortion is wrong, Israel has a right to exist and belongs to their holy land, etc.

            Regardless, the proletariat in Israel and the United States are a part of the imperial core; having much more in relation to their oppressing class than the proletariat of the global majority whom their land, resources and people are exploited, extracted and used on a scale far larger than anywhere in the core. American and Israeli citizens aren’t being wrapped up in a genocide.

            the proletariat are the only ones who pay the price of scapegoating religious and ethnic groups.

            There’s a litany of reasons to criticize every religious belief on this planet; but christianity and judaism as well as Islam have deserved plenty of it. Pointing out the decades of religious indoctrination, propaganda from the bourgeoise in Israel and America and fundamentalism isn’t scape-goating. It’s the “brute facts” that seemingly touched a “nerve” of yours. Jews are of many cultures and their religion and ethnic groups aren’t inherently tied.

            two-state solution

            There is only one state, Palestine. Imagine someone saying this about Ireland. Israel as a genocidal and religious state should not exist. No religious state should exist. Most Jews indigenous to the region/semitic are treated as second-class citizens.

            • Red_October [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              15 days ago

              Hey dude I’m not reading all that oblique trigger-worded bullshit. Conflating Judaism with Israel means you’re buying into bourgeoisie ethnostate propaganda. Every fucking rightoid shithead has a similar mentality as you. You know where this shit leads? Check your phone.

              • fannin [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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                15 days ago

                Nobody here is conflating Judaism with Israel. We all know those are two different things. What we are doing is looking at polling about support for Israel among Jews and the result is not good.

                • Red_October [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  15 days ago

                  Look up national depression polls. You’ll see the results change entirely based on who is doing the study. You really think most jews are on board with this shit? But you’ll still say zionism is different from judaism?

                  Fuck you people. This isn’t leftism.

                  • fannin [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    15 days ago

                    I don’t need to be lectured on what is and isn’t leftism by someone caping for Zionism because of some polls you don’t like the outcomes of.

                  • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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                    14 days ago

                    Look up abortion polls and other strict fundamentalist christian non-sense bleeding into the nation. The results change entirely based on who is doing the study. You really think most Christians are on board with this shit?

                    something you might not realize or a lot of people realize is that a solid chunk of Christians believe in the fascist/fundamentalist ideologues of catholic/protestant garbage. From the inherent calvinism in American culture, to topics such as abortion, evolution, etc. There are reasonable ones, just like there are reasonable Jews and those who aren’t zionist. There’s plenty.

                    It doesn’t change that a overwhelming amount of Christians/Jews believe in those types of fundamentalist ideologues. Either it’s about a holy land or that woman should be kept as incubators for half-dead children to be born. To even things more mild, like telling the victims of the atrocities of capital or their own religion that “God will be with them” to toothlessly placate them or offer them therapy when the state fails to offer any that draws them deeper into the tendrils of organized religion. Perhaps, it’s something to do with fundamentalist religion than you just screeching about us being rightoid jew-haters?

              • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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                14 days ago

                Conflating Judaism with Israel means you’re buying into bourgeoisie ethnostate propaganda

                “conflating abortion propaganda with Christians that make up the majority of the country, rule the country and in a nation with a long history of Christian violence means you’re buying into bourgeoisie ethnostate propaganda”

                Hey dude I’m not reading / >Every fucking rightoid shithead has a similar mentality as you.

                Can you read? If so, you’d maybe discover why rightoids have a bit of a different philosophy. But I suppose if you want to be mentally infantile you can just group stuff together based on the category of “I don’t like it and I don’t wanna read it”. Very easy way to live life which explains why you’re saying half the shit you are!

      • Blakey [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        15 days ago

        Hard to get a great answer but nearly half of all Jews live in Israel where support for the genocide is near universal and whenever you see polling of various Jewish diaspora communities there tend to be a lot of Zionists. It’s highly likely that it is at least a plurality if not a strict majority of Jewish people that are Zionists.