I mean that “dumb” isn’t necessarily something you are, it can be something you do. And posting something like what we see in this screenshot is very obviously dumb as fuck.
There are neurodiverse members of our community who have been called dumb by their peers, families, and teachers their whole lives. Seeing such terminology be used here can be detrimental to their mental health, and normalizing those terms means they’re bound to be used on our neurodiverse comrades if they irk certain people the wrong way.
I’m neurodiverse and was frequently called dumb and stupid, even by my own parents, and I find it a bit infantalizing when people say calling someone having a take this fucking dumb dumb is somehow wounding to me.
Lots of words have been used as insults, I got called nerd a lot in middle school but I’ve never seen any demands to ban that word from the lexicon of this community. I was also called gay as an insult in my youth too but I don’t go around demanding the gay community all start dryly and professionally referring to themselves as homosexuals to avoid dredging up some unpleasant memory. I get banning straight up slurs with histories of horrific violence attached to them but I don’t think we can ever successfully ban any word that makes anyone anywhere feel icky ever at all in any context, and I do think some people here have a habit of overstating harm in order to seem more ideologically dedicated. I also think there are some people who’s vision of a utopian future is one where everyone is painfully polite and friendly to each other which seems dystopian to me as someone who thinks there is beauty to be found in humans’ crassness and vulgarity. It seems an especially odd ideology to embrace on the site that was created by leftists who like vulgar humor.
It’s not infantalizing, it’s keeping derogatory comments out of the community. And while you may not personally find these terms upsetting, that doesn’t mean that others don’t. The decision was made after asking the neurodiverse community at large how to improve the site.
not want to hold space for knee-jerk, lazy ableism infecting the discourse.
Okay, don’t really have the energy RN to write a more serious reply to this, but if nothing else I want to people out that the users on this site are wildly inconsistent about how serious of a space they want this to be. One minute it’s a BS shitposting forum where people shoot the shit but another we’re all talking about “infecting the discourse”. What fucking discourse? This place is 90% jokes about combining the word penis and bean!
Yeah, there’s very little “discourse” except to litigate site policy. I’d love if the site was more serious and interested in being involved in influencing “discourse,” but it turned away from that idea years ago.
Also, I want to say, I see this weird dynamic play out in leftist spaces where if there’s any discussion on whether something is harmful to a marginalized community and if one person from that community says it is vs another who says it isn’t, the former always seems to assume they have some inherent moral authority and feels at will to speak down to the latter.
I’m not doing that. I’m not even counting on any particular ND person chiming in to say they feel personally harmed by the word. I’m ND myself and I don’t feel any connection to it. That isn’t really the point I’m making, nor the point people were making when it was made site policy.
I would even say ND people on here defending it are wrong to.
I would not independently bring up the comparison, but the inverse of this comparison is closer to the truth, because it’s the “let people say d**b” crowd that are opposing censorship.* I would absolutely not draw a moral equivalence between Third Way and you all (a courtesy you aren’t giving your “comrades” here), but in terms of basic structure there is only one way this comparison can go, so it’s probably better to set it aside because it’s not productive.
*I’m not some shitlib who thinks censorship is the evil of all evils, it’s just objectively what is being discussed here regardless of which side is correct.
In real life, people in the west are primed to be smugly anti- pc/woke/dei what have you by a larger system. It isn’t a reaction that comes naturally from within them.
To be “censored” in any meaningful or impactful sense you have to have been saying some novel thing in the first place.
I’m really not. You can point to the actual root of the reactionary thought rather than relying on “dumb” and the like, which is at best a stand-in for that, and at worst ableism. This can only improve the communication of your point, if you actually have one.
Whereas the Third Way blacklist is seeking to remove any discussion of or reference to systems of oppression.
It’s pretty obvious that this guy is a turbo racist piece of garbage, but I don’t think that equating being stupid with being a bad person actually does anything other than hurt nice, good people who could otherwise be called dumb. I don’t agree with the idea that dumb is something you do but I guess I can see what you mean? But to me at least it mostly falls back into that same trap of undeserving people catching strays.
What do you mean?
I mean that “dumb” isn’t necessarily something you are, it can be something you do. And posting something like what we see in this screenshot is very obviously dumb as fuck.
There are neurodiverse members of our community who have been called dumb by their peers, families, and teachers their whole lives. Seeing such terminology be used here can be detrimental to their mental health, and normalizing those terms means they’re bound to be used on our neurodiverse comrades if they irk certain people the wrong way.
I’m neurodiverse and was frequently called dumb and stupid, even by my own parents, and I find it a bit infantalizing when people say calling someone having a take this fucking dumb dumb is somehow wounding to me.
Lots of words have been used as insults, I got called nerd a lot in middle school but I’ve never seen any demands to ban that word from the lexicon of this community. I was also called gay as an insult in my youth too but I don’t go around demanding the gay community all start dryly and professionally referring to themselves as homosexuals to avoid dredging up some unpleasant memory. I get banning straight up slurs with histories of horrific violence attached to them but I don’t think we can ever successfully ban any word that makes anyone anywhere feel icky ever at all in any context, and I do think some people here have a habit of overstating harm in order to seem more ideologically dedicated. I also think there are some people who’s vision of a utopian future is one where everyone is painfully polite and friendly to each other which seems dystopian to me as someone who thinks there is beauty to be found in humans’ crassness and vulgarity. It seems an especially odd ideology to embrace on the site that was created by leftists who like vulgar humor.
Also neurodivergent, and this is a good take. Infantalizing NDs is also a problem.
It’s not infantalizing, it’s keeping derogatory comments out of the community. And while you may not personally find these terms upsetting, that doesn’t mean that others don’t. The decision was made after asking the neurodiverse community at large how to improve the site.
Well ¯\ˍ(ツ)ˍ/¯ I guess I missed that discussion, or I would have tried to make this point there.
It is infantilizing, also censoring derogatory comments that are entirely accurate doesn’t help anyone
How is this take any different from the third way think tank’s “anti-pc” blacklist discourse? https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5465386-democrats-avoid-political-correctness/
Also ND, not sure why you think it’s infantalizing to not want to hold space for knee-jerk, lazy ableism infecting the discourse.
Okay, don’t really have the energy RN to write a more serious reply to this, but if nothing else I want to people out that the users on this site are wildly inconsistent about how serious of a space they want this to be. One minute it’s a BS shitposting forum where people shoot the shit but another we’re all talking about “infecting the discourse”. What fucking discourse? This place is 90% jokes about combining the word penis and bean!
Yeah, there’s very little “discourse” except to litigate site policy. I’d love if the site was more serious and interested in being involved in influencing “discourse,” but it turned away from that idea years ago.
I don’t think how serious the site is or should be matters much to the conversation.
Also, I want to say, I see this weird dynamic play out in leftist spaces where if there’s any discussion on whether something is harmful to a marginalized community and if one person from that community says it is vs another who says it isn’t, the former always seems to assume they have some inherent moral authority and feels at will to speak down to the latter.
I’m not doing that. I’m not even counting on any particular ND person chiming in to say they feel personally harmed by the word. I’m ND myself and I don’t feel any connection to it. That isn’t really the point I’m making, nor the point people were making when it was made site policy.
I would even say ND people on here defending it are wrong to.
I would not independently bring up the comparison, but the inverse of this comparison is closer to the truth, because it’s the “let people say d**b” crowd that are opposing censorship.* I would absolutely not draw a moral equivalence between Third Way and you all (a courtesy you aren’t giving your “comrades” here), but in terms of basic structure there is only one way this comparison can go, so it’s probably better to set it aside because it’s not productive.
*I’m not some shitlib who thinks censorship is the evil of all evils, it’s just objectively what is being discussed here regardless of which side is correct.
In real life, people in the west are primed to be smugly anti- pc/woke/dei what have you by a larger system. It isn’t a reaction that comes naturally from within them.
To be “censored” in any meaningful or impactful sense you have to have been saying some novel thing in the first place.
You’re just playing with words in a meaningless way to avoid that your comparison was senseless and absurdly accusatory.
I’m really not. You can point to the actual root of the reactionary thought rather than relying on “dumb” and the like, which is at best a stand-in for that, and at worst ableism. This can only improve the communication of your point, if you actually have one.
Whereas the Third Way blacklist is seeking to remove any discussion of or reference to systems of oppression.
It’s pretty obvious that this guy is a turbo racist piece of garbage, but I don’t think that equating being stupid with being a bad person actually does anything other than hurt nice, good people who could otherwise be called dumb. I don’t agree with the idea that dumb is something you do but I guess I can see what you mean? But to me at least it mostly falls back into that same trap of undeserving people catching strays.