“Imperialism in the 21st century” was a very eye opening read for me and I was surprised to see this from Smith in an interview, comrades please help me understand:

“Marxist-Leninist” refers to the ideology espoused by the bureaucratic rulers of the former Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China and all those around the world who look to them for leadership, but in my opinion, there is no Marxism or Leninism in so-called “Marxism-Leninism”. We cannot get anywhere until we call things by their true names, so I insist on describing both the Moscow or Beijing varieties of these ideologies as Stalinist. This might upset some people or be misinterpreted as factional name-calling, but the alternative is to perpetuate an extremely harmful falsehood—one which is energetically promoted by bourgeois politicians and opinion-formers of all types, from the liberal left to the far right, all of whom are aware of how much damage they can do to the revolutionary workers’ movement by identifying socialism, communism and the liberatory ideas of Marx and Lenin with the disgusting brutality and corruption of the bureaucratic castes which once ruled the Soviet Union and which continue to rule over China (indeed, the capitalist ruling class presently in power in Russia is almost entirely composed of former “Marxist-Leninists”).

“Marxism-Leninism” served the rulers of the USSR and PRC not as a guide to action, but as a cloak of deception, a means of legitimizing their rule. They claimed allegiance to the same theories and philosophies as do I, but their doctrine of “peaceful coexistence” with imperialism stands in the clearest possible contradiction with everything that Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin stood for.

https://mronline.org/2019/03/19/john-smith-on-imperialism-part-1/

[Edit] Following from this I looked to my other eye-opening author, Zak Cope (Divided World, Divided Class) and found this where he disavows his entire work and all anticapitalism, just read the abstract and note 1:

https://link.springer.com/rwe/10.1007/978-3-031-25399-7_82-2

What the fuck is happening?

  • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlOP
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    2 days ago

    He’s argument is actually quite different though, he expands on this in part 2 of the interview:

    An almost impenetrable thicket of myths and falsehoods surrounds the so-called Cold War, which was anything but cold for the billions of people who live in Africa, Asia and Latin America. The dominant narrative is that the war was between the “West”, led by the United States, which was trying to spread capitalism and democracy, and the “East” led by the Soviet Union, which was trying to spread socialism and communism. It is absurd to claim that the installation by the USA and its allies of countless bloodthirsty dictators from the Shah to Saddam to Somoza had anything to do with “spreading democracy”, but the first part of the dominant narrative is correct: the USA and its imperialist allies were indeed fighting a war to spread capitalism and crush any resistance to it. What is false is that the Soviet Union was trying to spread socialism and communism. On the contrary, time and again the fake revolutionaries who ruled the USSR provided crucial assistance to the imperialists. The Stalinist “stages” theory of history held that anti-capitalist revolutions were impossible in nations oppressed by imperialism — because the working class was too small and weak and because the task of the day was to abolish feudal and other pre-capitalist obstacles to the spread of capitalism — and its proponents argued that a protracted period of capitalist development was necessary before class contradictions in these nations could come to approximate those in the imperialist nations, and only then could the struggle for socialism could be put on the agenda. So, instead of leading struggles to bring revolutionary governments of workers and farmers to power, Moscow instructed the communist parties under its control to become junior partners in alliances with the supposedly progressive wing of the national bourgeoisie, leading to countless catastrophic defeats, Iran in 1953 and Indonesia in 1965 being two major examples. As Che Guevara said, “the indigenous bourgeoisies have lost all capacity to oppose imperialism — if they ever had any…. There are no other alternatives. Either a socialist revolution or a caricature of a revolution.”

    It is notable that the only revolutionary victories during the so-called Cold War occurred under the leadership of communist parties that had broken at least partially from subservience to Moscow (Yugoslavia, China, Korea, Vietnam), or of revolutionary movements and parties that had never been in Moscow’s orbit in the first place (e.g. Cuba, Nicaragua, Algeria). Perhaps the most instructive example is that of Vietnam. At the Potsdam Conference in July 1945, the victors — Truman, Churchill (assisted by Labour Party leader Clement Attlee, whose election as Prime Minister of Britain was confirmed mid-conference) and Stalin, met to share out the spoils of victory. Hoping to continue the USSR’s wartime alliance with the supposed to be the antifascist, progressive wing of imperialism, Stalin agreed that France’s Indochinese colonies should be returned to their rightful owner, namely France.

    In defiance of this, on September 2 1945, before half a million people gathered in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh proclaimed an independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam — but nothing was done to prepare an appropriate welcome for imperialist troops (including 20,000 soldiers of the 20th Indian Division, part of the Indian army under Britain’s colonial command) sent to enforce the nefarious decision taken at Potsdam. Instead, acting under Moscow’s orders, the ICP leadership greeted the first contingents of British troops to arrive (on 12-13 September) with welcome banners and attempted to shake hands with their commander, General Gracey, but were contemptuously brushed aside. Gracey seized government buildings, declared martial law, freed Japanese prisoners of war, armed them and used them as a temporary police force until French military forces arrived to reinstate their colonial rule. Following this utterly avoidable disaster, the Vietnamese liberation forces resumed their struggle and pledged to never again subordinate their interests to the foreign policy of another power.

    Vietnam in 1945 was far from the only time that Stalin acted as an accomplice to imperialism’s crimes. Vietnam’s history has similarities with Korea’s, which Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt agreed should be also divided and placed under military occupation (at their notorious February 1945 meeting in Yalta) — leading to the Korean War, in which the US dropped more bombs than had been used by both sides in the Pacific theatre of World War II. By 1953, two and half million Koreans lay dead, but even this did not crush their resistance to imperialist occupation. Aided by some 300,000 soldiers from China (whose social revolution triumphed in 1949), Korea’s working people, led by Kim Il-Sung and the Korean Workers Party, inflicted the first ever military defeat upon the United States, for which they have never been forgiven and for which they continue to be cruelly punished.

    Moscow’s official policy throughout the Cold War was “peaceful coexistence”, code for class collaboration, and can be understood as the continuation of its post-war betrayal of the Korean and Vietnamese outlined above (there are many other nations and peoples on this list, not least the Jews of Europe and the people of Palestine, both of whom were betrayed by Moscow’s anti-Semitism and by its connivance with the establishment of Israel in 1948).

    These facts are not widely known, not even among left-wing and progressive forces, because neither liberal nor conservative opinion-formers have any interest in reminding us of these facts, and neither do those left-wing movements who have their origins in the Stalin-led ‘communist movement’.

    The dominant mainstream narrative on the Cold War has yet to be seriously challenged; on the contrary, the truth is buried under more and more layers of rubbish. Yet only a moment’s thought is needed to see its absurdity and its deeply reactionary nature. The “East” in the East-West confrontation was Moscow, yet Moscow is, geographically speaking, part of the West, the eastern edge of white Europe. The real East is invisible in this risible, incredibly Eurocentric narrative, and the same fate of invisibility befalls the entire South: the North-South conflict, i.e. the struggle between imperialism and its colonies and neo-colonies, is entirely collapsed into the so-called East-West conflict. Liberation struggles and revolutionary movements from Asia to Africa to Latin America are regarded as mere pawns of Moscow, without grievances of their own, without any agency of their own — this is not only absurd, it is also transparently racist.

    Only by exposing the lies that are contained in the term “Cold War” can I answer the question about whether there has been any change in imperialist behavior since it ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Just as the very notion of the Cold War is premised on falsehood, it is also false that the West won the Cold War. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the partial eclipse of the political forces that looked to Moscow for leadership has severely weakened an important prop of the imperialist world order. Far from inaugurating a unipolar world in which the USA and its imperialist allies could exercise untrammeled power, the post-Cold War world has seen accelerating chaos and disorder. The imperialists convinced themselves that they had won a great victory and celebrated by launching a series of wars in the Middle East and Central Asia, beginning with George Bush senior’s war on Iraq in 1991 in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the Berlin wall. But their hubris led to overconfidence, and each and every military adventure they have undertaken since the end of the Cold War has led them into a quagmire of death, division and recrimination, with nothing resembling a victory in sight. Unfortunately, if the imperialists cannot be said to have won the Cold War, neither can it be said that victory belongs to their adversaries, the working class and oppressed peoples of the world. Victory never falls into our lap, it must be fought for. What’s lacking are revolutionary leaders of the caliber of Lenin, Che, Fidel, Grenada’s Maurice Bishop, Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso and others, and political movements inspired by them, able to take advantage of the imperialists’ growing weakness and disarray.

    • CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml
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      8 hours ago

      I don’t think his criticisms of the USSR or prominent cold war narratives actually helps him answer his question very well. Does he think that the Russian Federation would not or has not attempted to coexist with western powers? Is Russia no longer white now that it isn’t communist or something? Oh, and we are lacking leaders like Fidel etc.,… who took support from the USSR. Where such leaders just erasing their own struggle in favor of a East-West struggle by doing this? Were they racist against themselves by doing so?

      Moscow is, geographically speaking, part of the West, the eastern edge of white Europe

      A bit exhausting but needs some grounding to set this point up if he can make it better. The struggle against continuity with the Russian Empire is real, but I think there needs to be some way of addressing or challenging what the revolution achieved and what it means before we call Moscow the edge of white Europe. My understanding is that Eastern Europe has long functioned as a kind of periphery/semi-periphery to Western Europe. Interestingly enough, Cope writes about this haha. I don’t necessarily agree that Eastern Europe is white in the same way whiteness manifests in the west. I wish there was more clarity on this because its not like I don’t already have “this is a bit russiaphobic” already in the chamber, almost like I’m being baited so just make the point.

      entirely collapsed into the so-called East-West conflict

      By who? And who recognizes this? I’m not saying there isn’t a good point in here, I just feel like we are erasing what the rest of the world has to say just to make this point that the USSR failed. Maybe others around the world agree to an extent that liberation efforts have been flattened. Does he talk about this more in his book? I haven’t read it all. It does have some third world orientation but I’m 99% sure it was all quantitative.

      Liberation struggles and revolutionary movements from Asia to Africa to Latin America are regarded as mere pawns of Moscow, without grievances of their own, without any agency of their own — this is not only absurd, it is also transparently racist.

      Seems potentially flattening of third world experiences. Again, who regards these struggles so cynically? The struggling masses?

      I don’t disagree that the cold war is often used to oversimplify complex global relations or that the USSR was ultimately unsuccessful in the liberation project it espoused. Its just that if you are going to leverage the global south like this, I think it should be more apparent that Smith is officially grounded by the right voices. Otherwise, it comes across as sanctimonious, that we should be centering this group that agrees with him because they are poorer or less “powerful” than the USSR or something.

    • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 days ago

      I read through. Don’t know what his sources are, but some of it sounds suspect. For example:

      Vietnam’s history has similarities with Korea’s, which Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt agreed should be also divided and placed under military occupation (at their notorious February 1945 meeting in Yalta) — leading to the Korean War, in which the US dropped more bombs than had been used by both sides in the Pacific theatre of World War II.

      According to what I remember from the Blowback Podcast version of events on Korea (which is sourced, though I have not investigated its sources personally), there was a point in it where Korea got help from China and China got some help from the USSR indirectly with resources, albeit not easily. Unless I’m just remembering something really wrongly, the framing that the Stalin USSR was somehow interested in propping up imperialist occupation, and therefore, desiring of the outcome of the US’s brutality toward Korea, seems like a lot of narrative spinning out of very little.

      In general, it seems like he is grasping at tenuous events of alleged decisions that were in agreement with an imperialist outcome rather than opposed, and then is placing on top of that a whole narrative of complicity. The USSR took a lot of damage defeating the Nazis and was not positioned favorably in post WWII in the way that the US was.

      I’m sure the USSR made some poor decisions in foreign policy, as has China, but I’m extremely skeptical of the way in which he is going about drawing lines between vague mentions of events and complicity with imperialism and then a jump to betrayal of the cause. A strategic mistake is not a betrayal, it’s a strategic mistake. A betrayal needs more system-wide evidence of failure to pursue the cause.

      Lastly, the fact that he ends by mentioning as better examples to follow several revolutionary leaders who died early rather than being marred by decades of difficult policy decisions only cements for me the suspicion that he is going down the road I mentioned, about purity and Christian culture in the west. I think it is a valid and reasonable pursuit to question and investigate the extent to which AES states have failed and try to learn from their mistakes, but the way he is going about this seems like a failure of thoroughness and a matter of starting with a narrative already made and then looking for information that will confirm the narrative.

      • Red_Scare [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlOP
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        2 days ago

        Great points! Aside from what you and comrades loathsome dongeater and thedarkernations said, I’ve also been thinking about Smiths assertion that the fall of the USSR, DDR, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and the entire Eastern Bloc was not a victory for imperialists but actually weakened imperialism, and the only reason we see the very opposite in reality around us is that we lack “revolutionary leaders of the caliber of Lenin, Che, Fidel, Grenada’s Maurice Bishop, Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso and others, and political movements inspired by them, able to take advantage of the imperialists’ growing weakness and disarray.”

        This hinges on the great man theory. There are in fact plenty of talented and charismatic organisers throughout the global South and beyond and when the material conditions are right there will be no shortage of people perfectly capable of taking the lead. There’s never a shortage of leaders, what’s lacking is conditions under which the overthrow of imperialism is possible. I think it’s blatantly clear the conditions for fighting imperialism are more difficult now than they were when the Eastern Bloc was strong, as it’s clear that the recent advances in Burkina Faso and elsewhere wouldn’t be possible without China and it’s allies weakening western imperialist powers.

        • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 days ago

          Great points!

          Same to you. That’s a good catch, it does sound a lot like great man theory, now you mention it. And yeah, with Burkina Faso, it makes me think of a video I watched at one point about assassination attempts made on Ibrahim Traoré and how supposedly there was one that was spotted with the help of Russian intelligence. There was also that confirmation about Russia getting some military assistance from the DPRK in Russia’s territory, IIRC on the details. Or just Russia’s allying with China in general. So what I’m getting at it is considering there are indications of today’s Russia collaborating with anti-imperialist AES states, it wouldn’t make much sense if we were to believe the Russia under the USSR did not do so, but Putin’s Russia does. It makes more sense to believe that Russia’s prior history as an AES state and a force for anti-imperialism would make it more trustworthy to AES states now, even though it is currently not one itself. Whereas if it had been overall complicit in imperialism as this person insinuates, even when being one of the strongest socialist powers in history, it would be odd for AES states to trust it at all.