I somewhat agree, but remember that it can also be nominally from the perspective of the victim and still very bad, like LonaRPG. Playing as a girl and getting off on her being brutalized in an objectified manner is a really common thing, with some games being more subtext and some just being “watch this girl get r—d” simulators.
Hey now, just to be clear, I didn’t play Lona and I don’t play these games in general, I just end up finding out about them because I really like certain types of obscure indie RPGs and in the process of looking for them, I end up finding out about shit like this too.
fair enough wasnt trying to accuse you of it sorry lol.
also, i should say i dont really judge anyone who plays even one of these porn games, even the really questionable/bad ones, i just think there’s too much potential for abuse and it feeds into the omnipresent misogyny in society so they need to be banned. i actually put more responsibility onto the ones who make these games than the consumers tbh.
Absolutely. I mean, I personally think someone who likes the game that I just mentioned is a porn-brained creep, but the fundamental issue when something is distributed that shouldn’t be distributed is pretty much always going to be the distributor and not the recipient. It’s a basic element of Marxist thinking that we should be deliberately cultivating environments that encourage people to be pro-social rather than leaving a bad environment as it is and moralizing regarding the individuals who respond to it in a completely predictable fashion. That kind of atomization and fixation on individual responsibility is how liberals deliberately avoid confronting systemic problems.
If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.
– Victor Hugo (via MLK)
I don’t take a view quite this totalizing and obviously here he is mostly talking about deprivation, but I think that materials that encourage misanthropic, chauvinistic, sadistic attitudes and feelings are their own kind of darkness and need to be dealt with accordingly.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn’t actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn’t actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
most importantly seems to contradict (eg. “fundamental issue”) the rest of the comment :3
i believe what you mean is that it’s something that shouldnt be left unaddressed and that you dont want to totally let creeps off the hook. ig i should say im ace and i find pretty much all porn hard to understand, even the most “normal” porn so the gap between someone who likes something really fucked up and “vanilla” porn isnt as big as i imagine it is to the average allo? like, i feel like it’s very possible to just like the taboo of a game like this without being a creep, find hot whatever you find hot, i think all sex stuff is weird but if you do like some taboo like these games (without desiring to be a r—pist ofc) you should not complain about them being banned and what not
My whole point is that I don’t appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff, but that whatever complaints I have about them consuming this shit isn’t fractionally as bad or worthwhile to discuss as the problem of it being put up for consumption to begin with.
I think the difference here – once explained – is pretty easy to understand. There’s a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That’s it.
My whole point is that I don’t appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff
i dont disagree. to better clarify my own position, it’s moreso that i dont want to try and claim to know random strangers’ hearts based off their kinks, which i mostly find weird anyways. i dont think its that far fetched for someone to find something like this titillating for a more innocuous reason (eg. just the taboo of it) but also recognize the horror of it. again, however, i think their position on whether or not it should be banned in public works to be illuminating if that makes any sense (i.e. i find it a lot more sus for someone to be very upset about these games being banned as compared to someone admitting they have played and enjoyed this kind of game but support a ban if that makes any kind of sense.)
There’s a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That’s it.
i agree here 100% btw, i maybe am just more lenient about the morals/intentions of someone who likes this kind of content.
I think that’s interesting because a lot of people take the opposite position – that people who consume this sort of thing and say it should be banned are hypocrites who can be dismissed – but I agree with you. I’d still think they’re sus, but I’d accept them believing it should be banned and they’re incomparably better than the chanlords who defend it.
I somewhat agree, but remember that it can also be nominally from the perspective of the victim and still very bad, like LonaRPG. Playing as a girl and getting off on her being brutalized in an objectified manner is a really common thing, with some games being more subtext and some just being “watch this girl get r—d” simulators.
i dont play porn games so im not really sure what LonaRPG is, but i would support banning any game that presents it like you described also
Hey now, just to be clear, I didn’t play Lona and I don’t play these games in general, I just end up finding out about them because I really like certain types of obscure indie RPGs and in the process of looking for them, I end up finding out about shit like this too.
fair enough wasnt trying to accuse you of it sorry lol.
also, i should say i dont really judge anyone who plays even one of these porn games, even the really questionable/bad ones, i just think there’s too much potential for abuse and it feeds into the omnipresent misogyny in society so they need to be banned. i actually put more responsibility onto the ones who make these games than the consumers tbh.
Absolutely. I mean, I personally think someone who likes the game that I just mentioned is a porn-brained creep, but the fundamental issue when something is distributed that shouldn’t be distributed is pretty much always going to be the distributor and not the recipient. It’s a basic element of Marxist thinking that we should be deliberately cultivating environments that encourage people to be pro-social rather than leaving a bad environment as it is and moralizing regarding the individuals who respond to it in a completely predictable fashion. That kind of atomization and fixation on individual responsibility is how liberals deliberately avoid confronting systemic problems.
– Victor Hugo (via MLK)
I don’t take a view quite this totalizing and obviously here he is mostly talking about deprivation, but I think that materials that encourage misanthropic, chauvinistic, sadistic attitudes and feelings are their own kind of darkness and need to be dealt with accordingly.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn’t actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
most importantly seems to contradict (eg. “fundamental issue”) the rest of the comment :3
i believe what you mean is that it’s something that shouldnt be left unaddressed and that you dont want to totally let creeps off the hook. ig i should say im ace and i find pretty much all porn hard to understand, even the most “normal” porn so the gap between someone who likes something really fucked up and “vanilla” porn isnt as big as i imagine it is to the average allo? like, i feel like it’s very possible to just like the taboo of a game like this without being a creep, find hot whatever you find hot, i think all sex stuff is weird but if you do like some taboo like these games (without desiring to be a r—pist ofc) you should not complain about them being banned and what not
My whole point is that I don’t appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff, but that whatever complaints I have about them consuming this shit isn’t fractionally as bad or worthwhile to discuss as the problem of it being put up for consumption to begin with.
I think the difference here – once explained – is pretty easy to understand. There’s a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That’s it.
i dont disagree. to better clarify my own position, it’s moreso that i dont want to try and claim to know random strangers’ hearts based off their kinks, which i mostly find weird anyways. i dont think its that far fetched for someone to find something like this titillating for a more innocuous reason (eg. just the taboo of it) but also recognize the horror of it. again, however, i think their position on whether or not it should be banned in public works to be illuminating if that makes any sense (i.e. i find it a lot more sus for someone to be very upset about these games being banned as compared to someone admitting they have played and enjoyed this kind of game but support a ban if that makes any kind of sense.)
i agree here 100% btw, i maybe am just more lenient about the morals/intentions of someone who likes this kind of content.
I think that’s interesting because a lot of people take the opposite position – that people who consume this sort of thing and say it should be banned are hypocrites who can be dismissed – but I agree with you. I’d still think they’re sus, but I’d accept them believing it should be banned and they’re incomparably better than the chanlords who defend it.