Socdem is bad because capitalism etc etc I understand that, but I saw some people in here saying that socdem is OBJECTIVELY the moderate branch of fascism, which I don’t really understand, because most socdems I know just want their basic welfare system, but are far from nationalism, advocating for genocide etc

I know it’s still bad but for example in spain I feel there’s a big difference between the francoist spain and the socdem wannabe spain, for the better

So please explain, and feel free to call out any brainworms that I might (probably) have shown in here

This could also just be a very funny line, like the “unlimited genocide on the first world” thing, idk

  • StalinIsMaiWaifu@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    23·
    3 days ago

    SocDems want reform, not revolution and this is an irreconcilable split. SocDems are politically incentivized to betray leftist movements and they have repeatedly done so.

    Examples: SDP killing the Sparticists, George Orwell ratting leftists put to the government, Bernie’s votes on foreign policy, Norway choosing NATO over the WP

    • durruticore [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      10·
      3 days ago

      What’s the WP?

      Also I did know about cases of socdems betraying communists, but I didn’t understand exactly how it’s exactly moderate fascism, is it less about ideological agreement and more about the socdems’ actions benefiting the fash?

      • SkeletorJesus [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        9·
        3 days ago

        It’s more that socdems advocate for a “reformed”/“modified”/“controlled” capitalism, which is still capitalism, and fascism (as Stalin defined it) is a reaction by capital to the revolutionary left. Therefore, by maintaining capitalism, they maintain fascism.

      • Sinisterium [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        1·
        3 days ago

        Because socdems work with fascist to archive it. Like Noske most famously. If you send Police/literally proto nazis to gun down workers, is really important that you yap about how there is tots going to be harm reduction!! socdem parties of modern Europe also participated in colonial crimes, hell most of europe right now has social democratic parties in government or had recently and look at what that has done.

    • Stolen_Stolen_Valor [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      7·
      3 days ago

      Bernie is such a good example. Him running for president basically introduced me to leftism but now when he says things half the time I’m just like “yo fuck this guy actually”

      He’s good a majority of the time then you realize his foreign policy basically lines up with the rest of the state apparatus.

    • SevenSkalls [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      31·
      3 days ago

      I had another comment in this thread that’s related to this topic maybe other people can help me out with.

      I’ve seen others use this same logic to say that MLs are the equivalent to even lefter groups, though. Like how Soc Dems have betrayed communists, MLS have always betrayed and backstabbed anarchists. I haven’t read enough history to know if that’s true so I never argue this point. I guess one of the things they may be referring to is the Bolshevik 1917 revolution, and their betrayal of the elections, squashing of other socialist factions, etc?

      • StalinIsMaiWaifu@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        6·
        3 days ago

        The two examples most people use are Bolsheviks in 1917 (Ukraine specifically) and in the Spanish Civil War. This is another irreconcilable split (Marx literally kicked Anarchists from the first international). Anarchists fundamentally believe the revolution must destroy all hierarchy while ML’s believe the vanguard party must lead a temporary state as it transitions to communism. This means that in a revolutionary state anarchists will begin to agitate for it’s destruction, which a Vanguard party will take as a threat.