The thing you have to understand about cctv and crime is that cctv does not affect crime that is not being undertaken in a rational way. When some dude decides on the spot to steal a phone, or commit SA, or punch you the face, all of these things are occurring with an impulse that is not rational in the first place, the opportunity is presenting itself and the person is simply going for it.
If there is no reasoned thought into undertaking the crime then there is no deterrent either. It is social and cultural things that reduce crime primarily. The vast majority of these kinds of crimes come from the poorest for a reason.
the opportunity is presenting itself and the person is simply going for it.
But CCTV limits the opportunity, no? If I’m walking down a dark street in London there’s an easy opportunity to steal my phone and get away with it. In Shanghai the opportunity isn’t the same because the thief will get caught if they try it. Same reason why that kind of crime is more likely anywhere in the world to take place on a quieter street at night than a high street in broad daylight.
Honestly I’ll go looking for studies because it just doesn’t compute to me that surveillance doesn’t work, and if it doesn’t work why would states like China invest in such extensive networks? Interesting topic though, if you’ve got any recommended reading I’d appreciate it!
You’re overestimating the abilities of CCTV and you’re also overestimating the piggies. Case in point: a long time ago I had my vehicle broken into and all my tools stolen when I went to dinner with the family. Vehicle was in full view of a CCTV system and there was a “security guard” patrolling the parking lot. Dinner was maybe 90 minutes at most. Security guy “didn’t see or hear anything”. Cops couldn’t be bothered to show up.
When the oink patrol finally got around to reviewing the footage they couldn’t resolve any discerning information. Nothing ever came of it. Nobody was ever investigated. My tools, including all the unique, hand-made, forged tools I made myself were never recovered. Just gone.
Outting myself a bit, but it takes maybe 30 seconds to break a side window and steal everything inside a vehicle. If you’re wearing non-descriptive clothing and any kind of mask you’re probably never going to be identified. You give way to much credit to the powers that be. They do not give a fuck about you. CCTV is just another weapon they use against you. It will never be used to help you. It will only ever be used to ensure you don’t organize. Your phone getting stolen? They don’t have the personnel to review that footage. Organizing a union? They have people on overtime to review that footage.
Like Awoo said, it does not deter petty, irrational crime. Irrational actors are not thinking about whether or not there are CCTV cameras. It also doesn’t deter coordinated, rational crime. Rational actors are aware of the surveillance and act accordingly. In either case, the CCTV system is irrelevant. Which leads to…
why would states … invest in such extensive networks?
Like I said: because it is a weapon. It is not for your benefit. It is not to deter crime. You and I are the targets. Anyone that gets uppity about the state is the target.
If you’re worried about crime, ensure that people have their needs met so they don’t have to do crimes to survive, not whether or not they are properly surveilled.
You’re underestimating Chinese capabilities. I’ve chatted to cops before while they’re stood there in the street with their ipads showing multiple local security cameras with facial recognition tracking squares floating all over the screen. There’s no hiding, in urban areas at least.
Again, tech is tech, and who is behind the camera is most important - for one you don’t get shit like “cops not bothering to show up” because they’re legally obliged to show up and help you - but Chinese tech is just real good and I can’t see how it’s not a crime deterrent.
why would states … invest in such extensive networks?
Because the cops tell their inquiries that if they had this tool they would be better. And the state listens to them. The cops are wrong, but it doesn’t matter because they genuinely believe it will help them.
The thing you have to understand about cctv and crime is that cctv does not affect crime that is not being undertaken in a rational way. When some dude decides on the spot to steal a phone, or commit SA, or punch you the face, all of these things are occurring with an impulse that is not rational in the first place, the opportunity is presenting itself and the person is simply going for it.
If there is no reasoned thought into undertaking the crime then there is no deterrent either. It is social and cultural things that reduce crime primarily. The vast majority of these kinds of crimes come from the poorest for a reason.
But CCTV limits the opportunity, no? If I’m walking down a dark street in London there’s an easy opportunity to steal my phone and get away with it. In Shanghai the opportunity isn’t the same because the thief will get caught if they try it. Same reason why that kind of crime is more likely anywhere in the world to take place on a quieter street at night than a high street in broad daylight.
Honestly I’ll go looking for studies because it just doesn’t compute to me that surveillance doesn’t work, and if it doesn’t work why would states like China invest in such extensive networks? Interesting topic though, if you’ve got any recommended reading I’d appreciate it!
You’re overestimating the abilities of CCTV and you’re also overestimating the piggies. Case in point: a long time ago I had my vehicle broken into and all my tools stolen when I went to dinner with the family. Vehicle was in full view of a CCTV system and there was a “security guard” patrolling the parking lot. Dinner was maybe 90 minutes at most. Security guy “didn’t see or hear anything”. Cops couldn’t be bothered to show up.
When the oink patrol finally got around to reviewing the footage they couldn’t resolve any discerning information. Nothing ever came of it. Nobody was ever investigated. My tools, including all the unique, hand-made, forged tools I made myself were never recovered. Just gone.
Outting myself a bit, but it takes maybe 30 seconds to break a side window and steal everything inside a vehicle. If you’re wearing non-descriptive clothing and any kind of mask you’re probably never going to be identified. You give way to much credit to the powers that be. They do not give a fuck about you. CCTV is just another weapon they use against you. It will never be used to help you. It will only ever be used to ensure you don’t organize. Your phone getting stolen? They don’t have the personnel to review that footage. Organizing a union? They have people on overtime to review that footage.
Like Awoo said, it does not deter petty, irrational crime. Irrational actors are not thinking about whether or not there are CCTV cameras. It also doesn’t deter coordinated, rational crime. Rational actors are aware of the surveillance and act accordingly. In either case, the CCTV system is irrelevant. Which leads to…
Like I said: because it is a weapon. It is not for your benefit. It is not to deter crime. You and I are the targets. Anyone that gets uppity about the state is the target.
If you’re worried about crime, ensure that people have their needs met so they don’t have to do crimes to survive, not whether or not they are properly surveilled.
<3
You’re underestimating Chinese capabilities. I’ve chatted to cops before while they’re stood there in the street with their ipads showing multiple local security cameras with facial recognition tracking squares floating all over the screen. There’s no hiding, in urban areas at least.
Again, tech is tech, and who is behind the camera is most important - for one you don’t get shit like “cops not bothering to show up” because they’re legally obliged to show up and help you - but Chinese tech is just real good and I can’t see how it’s not a crime deterrent.
Because the cops tell their inquiries that if they had this tool they would be better. And the state listens to them. The cops are wrong, but it doesn’t matter because they genuinely believe it will help them.
It’s as simple as that.
Not when the crime is not being performed rationally. You’re describing an impulse crime and the studies showed zero impact on it.